Let’s pretend you are short on cash. You just don’t have as much money coming in as you are used to having, because business has slowed down. Understandable. So you have to make some difficult choices to change how you conduct your business. Maybe you have to lay-off employees, or cut-back on the services your business offers. However, there is another part of your business that you dare not touch. State sales tax in, state sales tax out – it goes straight to the Ohio coffers. Don’t pay, or juggle the money and it is considered defrauding the state of Ohio. Way big problems if you decide to go that route. Fines, more fines, court costs, attorneys, liens, name dragged through mud. So you don’t go there.
But way if you ARE The State of Ohio?
Well obviously the rules don’t apply to YOU. The great state of Ohio receives enormous amounts of money from the federal government to fund various programs. This money is sometimes channeled through state bureaucracy – as in the case of social security monies intended for the care of the disabled. The state of Ohio has hundreds of private agencies that care for individuals with disabilities. Some are residential facilities, others are providers who help with meaningful employment, and the like. These providers employee thousands of people to help provide services for the less fortunate. The providers then pay their employees, bills, etc. for this care. The federal government sends this money to the states, and the states then disperse this money after the providers send in their billing for services. The state then distributes those funds to the providers in a timely fashion. WHOAAA.
Did I say timely fashion? Silly me. I should say whenever they damn well feel like it. One week the state employee who disperses these funds was on vacation. SO THE STATE JUST DIDN’T PAY UNTIL THE EMPLOYEE RETURNED FROM VACATION. Other times they state sends the reimbursements out late, and refuses to divulge the reason. Think this is a rare occurrence? Think again. I know folks in the business who have put up with this crap for years. Now just think how much money do you think the state of Ohio fails to disperse on time? Millions. How much other federal money do they hold onto? The state has yet to disperse the federal stimulus summer jobs for youth dollars to Seneca county, and we are half-way through JUNE! I believe that is a cool quarter of a million right there. Now just what do you suppose the interest on millions of dollars runs a day?
So the next time you are having a tough time of it and are tempted to cut a few corners, just sign yourself up to be the 51st state. It sure seems to work for Ohio.
Filed under: Uncategorized
Sooooo did anyone see the Tiffin City Council meeting tonight on tv? Karen Gillmor was there and gave Hizzoner a royal chewing. It’s about time someone stands up to this mans attitude . . . yet another nail in der fuhrer’s political coffin.
Reading der A-T story, you could almost see der svet popping out on Der Fuhrer’s face durink Frau Gillmore’s interrogation. To der Eastern front mit him.
Good analogy Sgt. Schultz. I liken der fuhrer’s latest battle with Senator Gillmor much like Napoleon’s Russion invasion of Russia in the dead of winter. Boroff thinks he is invincible and is inching closer to his waterloo.
Did you read the Mayor’s guest editorial today? I never saw such swirming to justify using the Sewer Fund to pay administrative salaries. I don’t remember who said this but, next time you flush, remember it’s for the Mayor.
Aw geesh. The happiest men in Seneca County today are the commissioners ’cause the heat’s on a different chief executive today.
Is there any elected official that the public appreciates these days? Okay, okay…here goes: “I hereby declare June 21-28 to be Seneca County Coroner Dr. Mark Akers Week!” Dr. Akers, a helluva guy doing his best at a dead end job, deserves our praise! Go get ‘em, doc!!!
At least we know Smilin Ed isn’t the only politican that gets to write his own articles.
Watching it on TV was better then reading about it in the AT. You get the facial expressions of the councilmen and councilwoman. I recommend for all to watch the council meetings. You learn a lot about how our government works or doesn’t work.
Senator Gillmor should have taken the mayor and commissioners to the wood shed; though she did it in her nice polite way.
She asks where are the requests for stimulus money from Seneca County? All of our elected officials looked puzzled at that question. I guess everything is just fine and dandy.
What about money for the viaduct on Washington St or the bypass around Tiffin connecting US 224 and North 53. I bet if you ask people in this county or Tiffin what our elected officials could use stimulus money for the list would be very, very long.
Come on elected officials, I see your looking out for all of us.
Oh come on, people. The Senator was grandstanding. It was all about her late husband and his “legacy.”
As far as her asking about what is going on…seems to me that the mayor’s home phone and office phone are listed. Moreover, his door is truly open all the time. Why didn’t she pay him a visit rather than pulling a Palin on him in public?
Methinks vie owe der Burgermeister an apology!!!
There may be a slight apology in store when you look at just last night’s events. However when you look at the picture as a whole the mayor is the one who owes council an apology. The man throws a fit if anyone challenges any of his proposals. He has a me first attitude that rivals his twin: Finkbiner. Sure Boroff’s door is always open but he is one of the hardest people to confront and tries to make everything into a joke. The man is either laughing or pissed off – the end. Furthermore once you leave his office he makes fun of you to no end and of this I have proof. Damn the torpedoes and full speed into the bottom of the Sandusky for Tiffin!
Pulling a Palin — what is that?
Our mayor is well known for his temper.
Friar – maybe you should write the first check to one of the young lions to start his campaign against the mayor. You seem to be ready for a change and they would certainly represent just that.
I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for any Burgermeister who didn’t show a temper these days! I mean, gee whiz, what do we want, a Wal*Mart greeter or a chief executive for the city? I don’t need anybody to just smile at me and tell me how great things are at the Maginot Line … when they’re not.
Col. Klink: point taken but when the Mayor is making council feel like their opinions and ideas mean nothing then he crosses the line. In these terrible economic times he should be willing to listen and share ideas even if they are not his own.
Havin a temper and throwing hissy fits are not the same thing. Neither are leadership and glad handing. Gilmore called em out for excessive thumb twiddling. While Small Latte panders to the base, Gilmore gets things done. Council and mayor. “stimulus what?” Gilmore is a refreshing change from the Seneca flannel mouths like Daddy Wags, Smilin Ed, and Mayor Bluster.
“We’re barking up every tree till the last dog is hung unless it gets us over a barrel and we leave no stone unturned,, buts thats water over the dam.”
I really don’t see Gillmore doing anything to help us. We need jobs, not a quiet zone in the Heidelberg area (paid for with tax dollars) to memorialize Skip Gillmore. Pork anyone?
Pork, any way you slice it means jobs. Again, as in the CH fiasco, money will go someplace, and some communities will be using it to put people to work. If you don’t ask , you don’t get. Political semantics aside, do you think the construction workers and their families hired to do work on these projects really care if some right wingers are ranting about “pork”?
Now that native son Gilmore is gone, do you think Latta gives a damn about Tiffin except to curry favor with “the base”?
You folks have a great points. Our newspaper puts no pressure on elected officals. Instead they give them opinion columns to explain the crap.Mean while most of the other local officals put no pressure on each other leaving them to do whatever the hell they want No accountabuility.Klink are you saying Tiffin needs no stimulas?? No spreaken zie Deutch.
Asa, Speaking of courthouses rumor is they are to replace the Franklin County courthouse. This is not the original but a modern structure like the one our county commissioners want. One that is like Smilin Ed says would last 50 to 100 years. Does anyone know when this structure was erected?
Can you imagine 40 years from now The THT petitioning the commissioners to Save The Nutter Center as well as the annex at the same time. How funny is that .I don’t think our children will be laughing.!!
Oberst Klink – I have to agree with Asa that these “pork” projects do create employment. Yes, the job or project might only last 6 months, 1 yr or 2 yrs, but it is gainfull employment. Then those construction workers can hopefully move onto another project.
There is a Nutter Center in Dayton. We do not need another in Seneca County, unless it is the same type of building that brings in revenue like the one in Dayton.
The editors of the newspaper are part if the good ole’boys network. If it won’t make money for them they won’t endorse it.
The grant for the Heidelberg project was over $3million and 1/4 of it has all ready been lost because of in activeness the grant was written for the quite zone and our Mayor is trying to say that the languish did not proved for a quite zone then he blamed CNX and CNX says he contacted them saying he was no longer interested in proceeding with the quite zone who do you believe?
Did you hear that the old post office is going to become a Civil War Museum at a renovation cost of about $600,000 witch has already been raised.There is the possibility of a Doll Museum at the Grames/Brown House and they are looking for a place for an Art Museum along with the glass Museum and the Ritz we may become a destination point witch could lead to more growth down town along with the TU and HU parkway.
Old timer. This is good news indeed. There is life coming to the old town yet despite the inert official leadership. Kudos to those behind the scenes working on these projects. Why does the quiet zone project sound like the attempt to change the legacy grant for the park bridge? If money was earmarked for specific uses, then get aggressive in making it happen. Excuses don’t cut it.
A Civil War Musuem? How appropriate in a town in constant battle with its local government. But all sarcasm aside. It sounds like a GREAT idea! Can’t wait to hear more details.
What in tarnation does Tiffin have to do with the Civil War? I hope the $600,000 isn’t taxpayer dollars! The last thing we need to do is commemorate the Battle of Applejack Park!
As between the mayor and CSX, I’d certainly believe the mayor.
What did Tiffin have to do with gigantic fiber glass squirrels? Klink proves once again that you can’t underestimate the negativity of a true Tiffinite. Your smug patter will play well with the gang at MacDonalds tomorrow morning. Have another Cinnabun and gag on it.
I’m not being negative, just realistic. Who the heck would ever come to Tiffin, Ohio of all places to see a Civil War museum? I just don’t get it. Glass museum – fine. Great Black Swamp museum – fine. Anything that has to do with the area – fine. But Civil War museum? Get real! Why would we set up something like that when it has no historical connection to Tiffin and Seneca County?
The two main historically significant Civil War events/venues in Ohio are: southern Ohio along the Ohio River where Morgan’s Raid occurred, and the Johnson’s Island Civil War prison site in Sandusky Bay.
If we’re going to blow $600,000 on a museum in Tiffin, it makes as much sense to locate the Los Angeles Dodgers Hall of Fame and Museum here as a Civil War museum.
I guess if that makes me a truly negative Tiffinite, so be it.
And as far as being a negative Tiffinite, I don’t join the “gang” at McDonald’s. I’m half their age and I freakin’ hate Cinnabon!
Klink…Johnson’s Island is one of the major Civil War archeological sites, and Heidelberg is the key player. This is a key link to a local college and an Ohio historical site. This is a perfect venue for the “education community”. You don’t need a battle. Cultural tourism is big. The museum officials like the old post office because it has parking and tour busses are planned. Look beyond the obvious. People will come to Tiffin. The college has been looking for a place to display artifacts from Johnson’s Island. why put them in Port Clinton (which is the other city in the running, but does not have a great byuilding ready to go).
Yeah, you are if not negative, then pretty cynical. I have hopes that you’ll overcome it.
Klink – This is not a new museum. It is currently located in Bowling Green, and while the people of Bowling Green sat around twiddling their thumbs, a few hard working folks in Tiffin decided to lure the museum here.
I don’t know how you can say Tiffin is not part of the Civil War. Have you ever looked at the Soldier’s Monument on Frost Parkway? Did you know that Tiffin residents were actively part of the Underground Railroad, and that the Sandusky River and Rock Creek were part of that link? What about the contributions of General William Harvey Gibson?
…and furthermore, that’s like saying we had nothing to do with WWII. Tell that to all the Veterans.
Oh, I see. I couple from Moline, Illinois planning a Civil War vacation is going to say, “Well, I got my choice of Gettysburg, Manassas Junction, Vicksburg, Lookout Mountain and Tiffin. Hey, honey! We GOTTA go to Tiffin!!!” I just don’t see it. I also don’t see how that makes me excessively negative, cynical, and worthy of wishing me to puke on a Cinnabon. If Sarah Palin was my mom, I’d take this debate national!!!
Klink – You’re missing the point. The more variety of attractions you have in Tiffin, the more time and money a visitor will spend here. You should talk to the “Little Box Shops” group about tourism. They bring in bus loads of people, and Tiffin wants these people to spend the day. A group might come in for a show at the Ritz, dinner at the Mill, tour the County Museum, Glass Museum, Doll Museum, Civil War Museum, see a demonstration of glass blowing, go shopping for antiques, etc. etc.
… and I should have mentioned the Art Guild. I also hear rumors that an art collection may be relocated to Tiffin. Along with that you could have rotating displays from the Toledo Museum of Art. Most museums have more items than they can display, so they loan these out to other museums or have traveling exhibits.
Let’s leave Klink alone in his/her little world and move on.
I think Klink is fighting for a WWII Museum. Seig Heil Oberst Klink!
If tourists came here for only local attractions like Klink sez, the only thing to see would be hicks playin cornhole and fat guys drinkin coffee and sayin “what is it about NO they don understand!” People like Klink burn me up.
And for the next parade we will all be “goose stepping” down Washington Street.
How about an Ohio politics amusement park. Like a funhouse where you experience Smilin Ed’s charisma , Mayor Bluster blowing a fuze, Small Latte pandering to the base, Tom Noe rare coin collection, the actual pistol left on the squad car by the sheriff, underground tours of the endless unfinished sewer, bobble heads of Carty Finkbiner, bus trips to the penal colony on Rt 100, an empty suit collection from ex Chamber of Commerce presidents, a James Trafficant fright wig, the porno tape from the Norwalk civics class lecture, an actual Republican Central Committee meeting, a real hog farm where crack pots can scream “It’s Pork, It’s Pork”, a rigged Cleveland voting machine, a waterlogged snowmobile from the Ottawa County million dollar ice rescue, and the apathy room full of citizens who don’t care.
Good idea Soup! Grand opening will feature a parade with confetti made from “hanging chads” supplied by the board of elections.
Does anyone know, are there any local jobs being created by the next phase of the sewer project?
Are they using local contractors to build the sewers? If so that creates employment. Do they buy the pipe and stone from local suppliers? If so that helps the local economy.
123 If you count the Mayors ,the city managers job the sidewalk commissioners job that no longer exists and a few other pawns and puppets who part of there salaries are being paid by the sewer fund then yes but as far as actual work force the answer is no. Did you know that the only reason the McDonald’s gang hangs out there is because it is the cheapest coffee in town and they can sit there all day and fill there guts all day with cup after cup of free coffee and they have nothing better to do.
Klink; Two locale people have donated the old post office and a lot of the expense is being donated by charities.and yes we all ready have buss loads of people coming to Tiffin the more things to do the more will come and stay longer. We can no longer count on a industrial base we need to reinvent ourselves.
I had breakfast at MacDuff’s the other day, and the BS was flying from the coffee club. The AC was working overtime clearing out all the hot air from all the
experts” spreading their wisdom. Why don’t these geniuses run for office? Our problems would be solved immediately.
Old Timer – I have to disagree with you. The sewer separation project is a major construction project that employs many people. Correct me if I’m wrong – and I know you will – but I think 123Gone wants to know if a local construction company is doing the work.
Seneca Landagoshe – I’ve heard some of the pearls of wisdom that come from that group. It’s pure gossip and very little fact.
money bags, You are right the project employees lots of people but I thought I was responding to new local jobs and no it is not a local company. It is the same company that did earlier sew separation.
O.T. Your right, it doesn’t create new jobs, but it keeps construction workers busy.
Our Mayor reminds me of Carty Finkbeiner of Toledo. They both love their city but are their city’s own worst enemy. Mayor Jim is so egotistical that I can hardly stand to watch him. By watching the council meetings I have come to the conclusion that Mayor Jim is in this for himself and can’t stand the thought of a young buck voting against his mis-appropriation of funds. Mayor Jim asked council to approve a huge increase in our sewer bills so we could accelerate the sewer project to satisfy the EPA. Now Mayor Jim wants to spend some of that money to pay salaries and benefits! I say rebate some of the excess back to us or temporarily lower our rates. Did Mayor Jim ask for the large increase in sewer rates knowing he would try to use some of the excess for the general fund? If so, then he wasn’t completely upfront with the council. He wasn’t
completely truthful with the citizens of Tiffin either. I was also disappointed with the Fire Chief. If he is confused and disappointed with the council’s vote on the sewer fund he is tossing blame the wrong way. Mr. Fire Chief needs to ask Mayor Jim why he allowed him to tell his employees if they made concessions there would be no layoffs because of the sewer fund money. Maybe Mayor Jim should have consulted his council before making this committment with the Chief! Lest we forget , the Mayor works for the city council AND not vice versa. If the Fire Chief can’t stand the heat generated by our poor economy then he needs to get out of the kitchen. Can anyone tell me what the population of Tiffin was 10+20 years ago and the number of city employees at those times? Please, no guessing, just hard facts and where you got them.
KingJames – If you want population statistics try the U.S. Census Bureau website at http://www.census.gov. Not sure where to find city employee statistics.
You can also try http://www.city-data.com.
I should add that when you visit http://www.city-data.com, after you enter the zip code, it will display at page that says “44883 zip code detailed profile.” Near the top of that page click on “City:Tiffin, OH”, and about half way down the page is a chart for “Local Government & Payroll.” Very interesting.
money bags:
Thanks for the web-site. Looks like Tiffin’s population is down about 3% since1970. Also shows we had 140 employees in 2007. I would still like to see how many employees we had in 1970, 1980, 1990, and 2000 so I could compare with population. I have been told that we are still paying for a sidewalk czar even though the mayor shelved the job.
The Fire Chief is Mayor Jim’s puppet.
Kingjames remember ALL city appointed officials such as the fire chief, water treatment super. Etc serve at the mayors will and can be dismissed for anything he so chooses. I’ve been told by one dept. Head that der fuhrer has threatened them with this and they are all constantly reminded. They really cannot speak out against him let alone tell him no if he demands they bring some sob story to council. It wouldn’t suprise me at all if he forced the chief into doing that the other night. Our mayor clearly has an ego problem and now appears to be developing an accute case of anxiety. Also keep in mind that his latest proposal 5-2. It wasn’t just the young guys spanking mr mayor.
S.S. Are you referring to a sock puppet, or something more like “Punch & Judy.”
Yeah. That’s the ticket. The young’ns got all the answers. Can’t wait to see how the city runs when the “Little Einsteins” are in charge.
Little Einsteins versus old dopes.
Col. Klink – me thinks you are part of the good ol’ boys
that need to go!!!!!!!!!
The city has a lot more employees now. Look back at the street dept. I am not knocking the parks dept. but I remember when summer college students were hired part time to take care of mowing and cleanup of our parks. The fire dept. has doubled in size since Enis took over. They used to have paramedics seperate from the fire dept. He got them all switched over to full time firefighters. I think the sewer and police departments are the only ones who have decreased in size since the 70’s and 80’s.
There is a lot of waste in this city just to keep “friends” employeed. The city wouldn’t be in a budget crisis if they eliminated some wasteful positions. I wonder what will happen if the city is running short in a few months. The police and fire already made concessions. Will the mayor look to cut other people first or threaten the public with the loss of safety forces again?
I ain’t old. I just have yet to be impressed by the 20-something generation.
“Tired” has hit the nail on the head.
Maybe those young lions need to crack the whip and get rid of our deadwood. This economy does not afford us the luxury of being employment central for nice people that we would hate to see laid off. Nobody wants to see people lose their jobs but we can’t afford to continue the status quo. Even the people that have jobs are tired of taxes and are overwhelmingly against raising taxes, so that isn’t an option. If Mr. Mayor is out of ideas on how to balance the budget then maybe its time to allow the council to do it for him.
What about the people who work several jobs…not necessarily to make ends meet but to be productive on days off and improve income….do they all pay taxes for all the jobs they do if they work lets say in seasonal jobs? There are probably many people who work flexible shifts and can do this…painting and roofing, etc. Sometimes I think it is greed always wanting more and more. People out of a job, with no unemployment .. sad…wish there was a way to spread the wealth around a bit better.
King James – are you a car?
Instead of laying off personnel, why can’t everyone take a pay cut of 5, 10 or 15 per cent? Sure it hurts, but that way everyone can keep their job.
When are our government officials going to wake up and realize that many businesses are down as much as 50%, or more, or even “out of business”? That means tax revenues will also be drastically cut, and the reality of that is just beginning to trickle down to the government. The next few years will be really tough for the government. The private sector has been hit hard, with people having to take HUGE pay cuts, and the government will have to follow suit.
Once all the corporations are gone we will see a real “punch in the gut” to the economy.
When National moves entirely overseas, and Taiho, American Fine Sinter, and Toledo Mold & Die close up and move away…then and ONLY then will the city and county goverments be faced with the sort of cuts that they should be making NOW.
The negativity here is astounding.
I haven’t looked at this blog in probably 6 months, and there is nothing new here.
Same old song and dance.
Ohio USA:
Yes, I’m a car. The only vice I have is I love cars. And my wife!
But not necessarily in that order.
scout639:
Thanks for the correction.
Instead of having the County Engineers office mow all the county road sides bare. Why don’t they “delay” the mowing and only mow where needed. Like at intersections, or maybe spray with round up so it doesnt grow back.
Why use MY tax money on mowing? Fix the pot holes and save the money for snow plowing.
(this applies to all township workers also)
I think this should be applied to the state as well. Let everything grow up like they do in other states.
Scout – Don’t you think that is dangerous for the wild creatures that roam the countryside? They jump out of the high grass right into the path of a speeding car.
Scout – You are correct. There have been studies done in Michigan and PA as to how much the state has saved from not mowing. Seneca County and Ohio have a bunch of “old timers” that mow, burn and tear out anything thats not a crop.
Speak Easy – They jump through short grass into a speeding car also. Not very animals I know stop and look for cars before crossing no matter how tall or short the grass is.
Wondering, This is one old timer that agrees with you governments wast a lot of money on mowing when they could plant wild flowers like some states do and the roadsides look beautiful and save thousands of dollars
Old Timer – you are a man after my own heart! I wish more people thought like you. It would save so much tax money and help wildlife and make our roads beautiful. North Carolina has some of the prettiest roadsides, they plant wildflowers and spring bulbs.
Wondering – They should put up more animal crossing signs, like the deer signs, so these creatures know where it’s safe to cross the highway.
Slots or not that is the question ? My vote is let in all the gambling they can get ! people who want to gamble will do so if it’s legal or not we might as well let them pay taxes for us as while as another state.and it does bring in jobs and there is corruption with or with out gambling.
Honestly, along those same lines, we should look at legalizing marihuana. Regulate it and tax the crap out of it. Between slot machines and pot, the state could do well revenue wise.
I’m perplexed by the use of the term: “township worker.” I have seen that in reference to CITY, COUNTY and STATE, even FEDERAL as well.
Usually, one has to ‘plant a stake’ to see evidence of those people WORKING. Sometimes it appears that their hands are molded to their shovels.
We all could get stoned and go play slots. Just think how well the food venders would do at the casinos.
speak – I have not seen any study or information that more animals are killed from the median being naturalized. I really think that would be great save money, fuel, labor, etc.
Scout – The real problem is how do you decide where to mow and not to mow. They have to mow intersections and driveways for visibility reasons, but who decides how far back from the intersection to mow. It then becomes a liability question. Let’s say they decide to mow back 50 feet and someone in a low profile car can’t see and gets in an accident.
My pet peave, which is along these lines, are farmers who plant corn into the right-of-way. You see this all of the time, and as the corn matures, it partially blocks the view of on coming traffic.
Why not make the land owner mow the right of way just like they have to in the city?
Many roadsides around the country never mow with thick planting of various wild flowers and early spraying the roadsides cause no hazards.
I agree that field corn can be a problem for drivers. But I have traveled around the US and Ohio is mow happy. Out west they would never waste their time mowing, and other places are naturalized.
Your idea is sound in some situations. In others it becomes a safety issue. Many landowners cannot afford mowers mounted on extended hydraulic arms. Even more, some of those people have no business interfering with traffic in such situations. It’s bad enough if government mowers throw rocks into your windshield – let alone someone with at-risk equipment and diminished senses.
Today’s A-T reveals a showdown coming between hizzoner and council. Also, it looks like Clausing will be out of retirement and running against one of the young lions. The old timers are circling the wagons.
Soupy Sales:
The old timers (good ole boy network) is what got us into this quaqmire in the first place. We need to give these young lions a chance to save this city instead of everything being stuffed down our throats by the old generation that I’m part of. I’m ready for a petition drive to roll back our sewer rates. I’m ready to see Mayor Carty Boroff voted out of office by our council so we can move on as a city. Mayor Carty Boroff is the worst example of a conservative republican I have ever seen. He is just a tax and spend liberal and the sewer fund is nothing more than a giant tax on the citizens! Shame on you Mayor Carty for being dishonest about the Heidelberg quite zone also. You single handedly made us look bad to Senator Gillmor and the statehouse by lying about where you stood on this project. What else are you hiding from the citizens of this city.
Soupy: where did you get this information from? Clausing is quite old and I can’t imagine he would re-enter the political scene unless someone (Boroff?) really pushed him.
Pleas don’t refer to the good old boys as old timers it gives me a bad name.I would love to see new blood take the helm of Tiffin and Seneca County.They are the ones who are going to pay the price for the mistakes that have been made for the past few years.They have much to gain and nothing to loose in trying a new approach.
The story in the A-T today said his name would likely be on the ballot in the fall. His comments on the charter also echo hizzoner. Figure it out.
To Friartuck: Santa Clausing came right out and said he expects to submit a petition to be placed on the ballot as a candidate to serve on the new charter commission.
The disturbing part is that he would not be upset if the charter commission decided that no changes were necessary. So why does he want to be on the commission? The whole purpose is to look for improvement in the charter, and certainly there is room for improvement in any form of government.
That’s like Nutter placing himself on the law library board they just have to control everything.As for Clausing he says God leads him in what he does.
Nutter is God.
Clausing said he expects his name to be on the ballot in November for Charter Review not City Council. The only council race he could fun would be in 2011 when the fourth ward is up for re-election. I agree that its sad he wants to be on the board and wouldn’t be upset if there weren’t any changes. Also sad that he agrees with Boroff about eliminating political parties in Tiffin.
Friar – Sorry I would have to agree with Mr. C and Mr. B on the party thing, in a town or county.
If a candidate had no party after his or her name the voter would actual have to read and figure out whom they would vote for. By reading the platform of each candidate and actual listen to what each person had to say. It’s just not a rubber stamp for a Donkey or Elephant.
A voter who is a rubber stamper really is not a voter; they’re a person who really is not looking for the candidate who best would serve their interests. I saw it in the last election, with a number of independent candidates, who were the better person for the job.
Does a small town Democrat or Republican candidate really have the same platform the big girls and boys in the state or national races have? Most of the time the issues are different.
Johnny, in theory an idealistic approach. However, given the power of the Central Committees in places like Seneca County, the voter has a right to know who is really behind the candidate. So many local pols become rubber stamps for the benefactors, it is crucial to know their party allegience. If they don’t want to be identified as a partisan candidate, they can always run as independents.
I want to know who the candidate is beholden to.
The candidate is beholden to the voter, not the central committee and the good old boys.
Nothing changes because the central committee members do not want change. There are people in this county who are passionate to make this county and city a better place to live. But they are shunned for their ideas. This city and county will continue to suffer at the hands of these people. No one wants change unless it’s his or her idea. I want credit for that. It was all me, myself and I.
Look at the discussion about the Tiffin downtown. You have the Tiffin Tomorrow project and the court house team. Each saying they have a plan to make Tiffin better. Which one do you think will win? I know who the biggest loser will be, the people of Tiffin.
They need some one who can coordinate all the different entities. Heidelberg University, Tiffin University, Tiffin Tomorrow and the Court house gang to make Tiffin a growing place and not stagnate like the water in the Sandusky River. After a while it starts to smell.
Johnny, do a little homework and you will find that he CH group and Tiffin Tomorrow have many goals in common. In fact the CH is central to much of what Tiffin Tomorrow is trying to accomplish. Many CH supporters are also avid Tiffin Tomorrow members. In my view there is no power struggle between all of the groups you have named in your well-intended entry. While I completely agree with your first paragraph, you have the wrong take on the downtown project. It is a win-win for all of us if the project succeeds. And, there is a desperate need for leadership to coordinate everything. Where have our elected officials been in providing this? Playing Ostrich.
johnny – I don’t know what you are talking about. Somehow you have the wrong impression that Tiffin Tomorrow and the CH group have a different plan for the downtown, when in fact the two groups are working together. The CH group is definitely focused on a few key buildings, while Tiffin Tomorrow has a wider focus, but be assured that the CH is part of theTiffin Tomorrow plan.
Methinks we should change the name of Tiffin City Council to “The Young and the Restless…starring the Little Einsteins”!!!
Klink, the column this AM in the A-T by the dissenting councilmen is a reasoned and well-presented explanation of their position. Citizens should be supporting their attempt to use capitol funds for their intended purpose. I had no idea that the mayor was using part of the sewer fund for his own salary. Hey Klink, are you a city employee too?
Methinks we should change the name of Col. Klink to “I fear change and the truth … starring Der Fuhrer Carty Boroff”!!!
It sounds like Col. Klink sees the Young Lions as a threat to Mayor Carty Boroff. Kudos to the committee for looking at the city payroll and employees as an expense and not a lifetime guarantee of a job. The rest of us have had to deal with lay offs and take on more work to cover the loss in people due to the economy. You are using OUR money – not YOURS. You work for US – not the other way around. Who wouldn’t want to try to keep a city job with the sweet perks you have. How much do they pay monthly for health insurance? $15 – $20 a month? Who else in this city, state or country pays so little. Soupy Sales had some great points – “a petition drive to roll back our sewer rates” and have “Mayor Carty Boroff voted out of office by our council”. It’s time to “Take Back Tiffin”!
It was interesting to see only three of the five who voted against the sewer splitting salaries participated in the open discussion as a committee. I think there comparing the dividing of time from one part of there Jobs from another was right on does anyone know what the job description are for any of these positions ?
All over , executives and elected officials are voluntarily reducing their pay and rejecting pay raises. Here, the sewer fund gets raided. I feel sorry for the little guy with the shovel who will likely get laid off but the big boys stay smug in their office drawing down the bucks you and I pay for. This isn’t about providing services to the public as much as it is keeping the buddy system feeding off the trough. The five no votes have it right.
Old Timer – were you at the meeting to know that only 3 participated? Just because it wasn’t written doesn’t mean that others didn’t speak. Although this latest article had a lot more information than usualy, the AT is known for being in Mayor Carty Boroff’s pocket. The sewer rate increase was obviously done to pay for more raiding for salaries. Comparing the dividing of time from part of their jobs is a lame excuse to steal from the sewer fund.
The Tiffin Tomorrow meetings at the Ritz and Heidelberg, which I attended, never mentioned anything about the CH. Even the small group discussions, at Heidelberg, never brought up the CH. The different perspectives and concerns boards never mentioned the CH.
Have there been discussions between MKC and KKG?
Will the new President of the Tiffin Chamber be the coordinator of this new birth of downtown Tiffin?
Old Timer, on June 30th, 2009 at 8:49 am Said:
It was interesting to see only three of the five who voted against the sewer splitting salaries participated in the open discussion as a committee.
Very interesting! I would be interested to see that report. That was not reported in the A-T this AM. What is your source?
jonny – Did you notice how many times an image of the courthouse appeared in the presentation? KKG understands the concept of subliminal messages.
KKG’s “Downtown Strategic Plan” states under “Community Assets” that “Downtown Tiffin has some landmark buildings including the Seneca County Courthouse and the Ritz Theater.” I don’t think KKG could get more specific than that.
I did not say the other two did not participate they were not part of the convening committee. They did talk so did the Mayor and other members of city counsel they were in the audiences.I believe that the Mayors job should be to be involved in every aspect of city gov. so should the city administrator you can’t portion off parts of that job.Just because one person says it is legal dosn’t make it true I would like to see that challenged in court.
Uh: “Old Timer, on June 30th, 2009 at 8:49 am Said:
It was interesting to see only three of the five who voted against the sewer splitting salaries participated in the open discussion as a committee.”
No, I’m not a city employee. Sorry to burst your bubble. Just because I am not impressed with the Young and the Restless does NOT mean I am afraid of change or that I am a city employee. Sorry to disappoint y’all. Hell, I ain’t even a Republican!!!
Shall we forget the pool is open and running at a large loss. Yet, the recreation coordinator is a member of the list to be cut.
Having a city pool running at a loss doesn’t bother me too much because a city pool should not be in place to make profits (although some are trying to profit off the sewers) For the pool to break even would probably mean raising the price of pool passes and then those among us with very little money would be priced out of having a safe and healthy place for our kids to spend their summer days. If our kids weren’t at the pool they’d be doin’ what we were doin’ during our seneca county summertimes when we were their age, and we CERTAINLY don’t want THAT.
I don’t know how some of us survived our youth there was no pool and we swam in Millers stone quarry naked as a blue jay with no life guards or at the old YMCA also naked in my day.But then we didn’t have drugs and none of us knew about perverts and we could run around anywhere and felt safe life seemed so simple then. WE also didn’t have school guards.
Speaking of school guards, the city’s plan to discontinue crossing guards for school children is a HUGE mistake. Seems like they could find a better place to cut that wouldn’t jeopordize our children’s safety.
I agree Speak, adult supervision is so important exspecially at the elementary level. How much are the y paying these people anyway? Funny thing is despite the decline in population in the city and county you never here talk of administration jobs being eliminated.
How much is the life of one kid worth? God forbid that we ever have to find out because there were no crossing guards.
If they want to find a quick way to slash expenses, get rid of the “double dippers.”
I’ve got it – eliminate the Sidewalk Administrator position and use that salary to pay for the crossing guards. There is no sidewalk program, so somebody please tell me why there is still a “Sidewalk Administrator”. Who is he pals with that is protecting his job? The lives of children is far more important than keeping your buddy in a job. How do you people live with yourselves?
Like the council prez sez, “it’ about providing services”. But the bloated city bureaucracy must continue.
Where did the fireworks money come from this year?
Unless a private donor ponied up, they should be canned this year. If crossing guards are out, then bread and circuses should go also.
Soup – You say the city can’t afford bread? Then let them eat cake, or in your case should I say croutons.
I just went past Heidelberg University and it looks like they might be starting construction on the street improvements and quiet zone finally. It’ll be nice when you can walk through Tiffin without those train whistles blaring constantly. And the best part is, the millions of dollars needed came from federal money that Heidelberg went after. Not from the city’s general fund (or sewer fund etiher).
My cliche was ill chosen. I meant that public entertainments should be curtailed when the city cannot pay for basic services like the safety of school children.
In ancient Rome the dictators served up cheap diversions like gladiators and chariot races and free bread to keep the citizens occupied while the political hacks and bureaucratic stooges could continue their grafting unimpeded.
However, it looks like local government begging is working to chisel funds from the private sector to provide these diversions. Basic and essential service to the public should be the top priority. Leave the entertainment business to others.
SCFrog; The construction on Greenfield St is not the Collage cut thou quit zone project that is being held up by his Honor and my not ever happen the way he is wasting the money on bull-shit. I hear a large chunk of it has already been lost to burocracy. The work that’s being done now is the sewer separation work I don’t know why they could not do both jobs at the same time instead after the sewer job is done they can come back and tear the road up again for the grant job. Maybe the Mayor can clam part of that work for part of city salaries to?
Mr. Dithers meets Dilbert! Issue a proclamation.
Seneca L: Tell me more….what should that proc say?
Ohio-American Water Co. and employees donated money for the operation of the city pool. How much do you think the company makes with the filling of the pool ? I hope everyone is aware that you can fill your pools or hot tubs without using city water. Your water bill won’t go up and your sewer bill won’t crash your budget.
Seneca County Frog -I wish your observations were true but actually it is the next phase of the sewer separation project. It is my understanding the Mayor put a stop to the quiet zone becoming a reality.
At one of the city council meetings they showed on tv last month mayor Boroff told councilman Montz that he backed the quiet zone. I don’t think he would blatantly lie to city council by saying he backed it and then actually do anything to interfere with it happening. People would go nuts. Boroff is not an idiot and I don’t think he would commit political suicide with such a blatant lie.
Is it true that the Safety Director is planning to make Main Street a one-way, running west, now that we will no longer have crossing guards? This will enable Nutter and Dale Williams to get to work on time!
What this City needs is more One-Way Streets!
EarnestMarch – Did you read the nice article about Dale Williams in the veterans tribute in the A-T?
Actually making Main Street one-way running into town is a good idea. Why not make all of the streets one-way running toward the central business district. That will prevent shoppers from going out of town.
How bout a one way street outa town for a few stale politicians?
Just run the stale politicians out on a rail, through the “quiet zone.”
Borat was for the quiet zone after Sen Gilmore ripped him a new one. Unless he thinks of it first, it’s no good.
Consideration is being made to erect a monument to DALE WILLIAMS in the Village of Bettsville. He’s the greatest thing to have happened in that town since he Civil War.
seneca county frog:
You bet Carty Boroff would lie! He has been doing it for years. I noticed the AT made it look like the council voted down the funding for school crossing guards. I heard it through the grapevine that he brought the idea to the council. We are witnessing the total breakdown of the office of the mayor due to the mayor’s huge ego that won’t be challenged.
A joyous and happy Independence Day to all. Whatever our political persuasion, we can all celebrate as Americans today and set aside our differences to remember our common heritage and values.
Thanks Asa!
The flag I am flying is “Made in USA”….not China!
How ’bout them fireworks!
How many crossing guards went up in smoke last night?
i thought the council voted the crossing guard program out of existence a few months ago as a budgetary issue and now they want to do something about with no money in the budget for it. Im guessing now that people are taking notice they are realizing the implications of their decision.
From what I understand, the programs existed for 40 or 50 years.
Sen.:
I believe most school systems in Ohio pay for crossing guards themselves. If so, then ours should also. I hope and pray those 5 rebels hold tight and don’t give in. This is the first time in decades that Tiffin has a chance of improvement and us old farts need to get out of the way.
Just a note about our colleges:
Isn’t it great to see T.U. and the BERG prosper. Hats off
to both institutions for leading the way to a better city.
King James, the school system has held the line on expenditures and the administrators have refused pay increases the past few years. The schools are already cut to the bone. Don’t forget that the parochial schools are also part of the crossing guard program, and Calvert is running in the red. Until the mayor and his administration do the same, cutting crossing guards looks hypocritical. If the city needs to make cuts, why do the police and fire dept have to do the heavy lifting? Hizzoner would score big credibility points by cutting his own salary and office budget.
Yeah King James, I agree about the colleges. TU and Heidelberg are the only parts of town that aren’t falling apart. the courthouse is just about condemned, the city hall is inadequate, the river wall is falling into the Sandusky, and we would be better off with dirt roads than the crumbling crappy streets all over town. Do any of the local officials even give a damn about the city anymore or they all just lining their own pockets with our dollars?
It’s worth noting that the two colleges depend upon recruiting faculty and students which means creating a first-class first impression. We ought to be asking what kind of first impression does much of the community create with its shabby, unkempt appearance. When the street traffic on downtown sidewalks is largely made up of drifters and bozos and properties are left dirty and squalid, what do visitors think of us? Frog, however, is pretty extreme in blaming local officials for this. Penny wise and pound foolish land lords are a large part of the problem.
Let’s hope Tiffin Tomorrow gets things on the right track.
HeadsUP: Downtown Cleanup – Volunteer with Tiffin Tomrrow Today! Details……
http://tiffinchamber.com/
Tiffin is an hour behind??? My computer says 10:45 but the blog is behind the times:-)
Frog – Things are not as bad as you say.
1. I see construction has begun on rebuilding the river wall between Market and Perry Streets.
2. City Hall might be short on space, but it is well maintained; and do they really need extra space when layoffs are pending.
3. A plan to renovate the courthouse will be presented in 2 weeks!
Soupy:
I agree the roads are terrible and the city has spent all of the capital improvement money on wages. I’m not sure how they will pay for resurfacing city streets.
As far as layoffs go I believe about a third of all city employees work for the police and fire department so they will have to absorb many of the cutbacks. That said, all departments should join in the pain as our city government navigates through this recession that may not end for years. We can’t keep the status quo as the city treasury takes in less and less money. Reality is at our doorstep and we will have to accept the cutbacks.
None of the problems Tiffin and other cities , states and the Federal gov. is now experiences happened over night. They were a long time in the making with over inflated home values,overly enthusing stock market values and lack of government control and interest at all levels of government and like a lot of us spent like drunken sailors on live then all of a sudden woke up from a hang over and wondered what happend!
Compared to other similar cities, Tiffin overall is still in pretty good shape. A recent drive through Clyde where neighborhoods that 20 years ago were full of charm and historic houses is quite revealing. Most of the mature trees have been removed and not replaced. Bad aluminum siding, much “remuddling”, and brick a brac abound. The brick streets have been paved. In other words, “progress” has ruined a fine old town. “Winesburg, Ohio” Clyde no longer is. Fostoria, despite a decent mayor, is in decline. Would anyone trade Tiffin for Bucyrus, Galion, Willard, or Shelby? Fremont is a mess despite the Hayes Center and some pockets of beauty. Norwalk’s Main Street is a success, but elsewhere it looks like suburban Cleveland.
While a little shopworn around the edges, Tiffin has a lot that has not been destroyed yet. With some initiative and leadership, we can make Tiffin Tomorrow happen. Any of the aforementioned cities would give anything to have two prospering colleges, The Ritz, the Glass Museum, and the assets we have here (and often do not recognize nor appreciate). With two new museum projects afoot and a potential revitalization of the CH, things look promising.
Locals can learn much from a day trip to places where history “sells” and 19th Century downtowns are alive and thriving.
Take a short drive to historic Milan, Ohio or north to Tecumseh, MI. When in the Lansing, MI area, drive through the Ingham County seat of Mason (off 127) to see what a restored court house downtown looks like. On a Sunday there, I saw visitors strolling through shops and on the CH green. People spending money in coffee shops and niche stores. People antiquing in the many malls and shops.
Other similar destinations: Marshall, MI, Grand Rapids, OH, Coshocton’s Roscoe Village. Get out of town and see how success grows elsewhere.
Instead of glooming and dooming, let’s get some fresh thinking and elbow grease going in Tiffin. Or, support the folks in Tiffin Tomorow!
We should add Oberlin to the list of places with great downtown activity – a ecletic mix of old and new. An architectural review ordinance established just nine years ago has to have helped. There is some new construction going on presently. Hanging plants grace lampposts and give a we care look – benches (not all matching or anything) abound – coffee & ice cream shops – music store – a convenience store w/old general store type feel – history walks w/guides and “Mingle on Main Street” type events planned…. locals must enjoy it as much as visitors to the community. Heritage and cultural tourism certainly increases revenues but at the same time improves the quality of place for residents.
Towns can’t replace what has been lost to what appeared to be progress/trends. Maybe Tiffin’s lack of “progress” actually will become their greatest asset???
In regard to the comment about the Clyde “Winesburg Ohio” look & feel missing…..At least Heritage Hall was deeded to and preserved by the Clyde Heritage League after the city fathers built the new city building -It has been adapted for reuse and is leased by a Life Enrichment Center. Visit Our Towns Brewin’, in the center of downtown, for a coffee shop in the former dime store. It is a “step back in time” feel and has good soups, sandwiches, and pies. Anywhere USA is on Route 20.
I am interested in how many of you on this blog know that the Ohio Historical Society recently presented their highest award, the Edward Tiffin Award, to a gentleman from Tiffin, Ohio- Dr. Kenneth Davison!
Another recent happening that should make Tiffin very proud!
Has anyone noticed the recent TV spot by Time Warner talking about “home town.” The ad contains images of an historic town with a restored courthouse and historic homes. I don’t know what city it is but it’s beautiful. That’s America’s image of what a home town is all about, and Tiffin has the potential to once again be the all American home town.
Preserve America Communities are special for sure!
Didn’t mean to diss Clyde completely. Downtown still has potential, and the Heritage Hall is wonderful. I did a slide show of Clyde as part of a Winesburg Ohio project for the Sherwood Anderson Centennial in 1976. Most of it was still vintage and kept in tact. My recent trip into the old neighborhoods was pretty depressing with a few exceptions.
Oberlin should certainly be on an Ohio must see list. You are right about “eclectic mix”. Old and new can coexist in small town America.
The more you travel to these places, the more you appreciate what Tiffin has to offer. Let’s not give up.
Asa: “Give Up” – not impressive! That’s too easy. Negotiation/Compromise is a better term….learning how to incorporate the good w/bad and agreeing to disagree at times…..staying proactive and seeking balance….all important….to successful outcomes.
ALL towns have unique potential – it is up to individuals to identify what that potential is, and seek to educate others. What makes my hometown special? I agree that what’s in ones own backyard often goes unappreciated until someone (often not people who don’t have the right name or fame in a community) shine the light. Sadly but true- some still don’t see – or refuse to see until it is practically impossible to block out the light. Comparing towns and realities shed ideas for improvements …broaden perspectives… lead to new pride and determined progress. Giving Up is not an option!
Comment on River Wall Reconstruction:
Do they still dump snow/roadsalt in the river? Will disposal prevent deterioration somewhere else?
Sorry for so many posts…I’ve been catching up a bit.
Some say it’s the citizens that make a community, and that’s certainly true, but it’s almost always the buildings and streets that make the first impression. Have you ever been to Pemberville. I found myself driving through there one day, and I just had to spend some time driving around. I don’t know anyone who lives there and I know nothing about the community, but it’s a nice, clean, well maintained village. It was definitely the streets and charming buildings that gave me a positive first impression.
Pembeville has a restored opera house.
Check it out on their village website that lists events.
Tiffin not only has two fine collages the Ritz, The glass museum and the potential for two more we also have the river witch could be developed more then it is. We have a great mix of architecture styles not all the same cookie cuter design.We certainly have much to work with and much to be proud of I am very hopeful
Another fine little village like Pemberville is Elmore. Check it out.
I drove around Tiffin over the holiday weekend. Home owners go out and pull the weeds at the curb and sweep up the grass trimmings along the curb. It takes five minutes and makes an huge difference. It’s all about doing the little things.
Common sense has common sense…and it doesn’t cost money…just a little time and elbow grease! You can see neighborhoods who care….one does it, others do too…pretty soon a whole street looks neat.
A little thing that I do regularly is to do weed control along the gutters on my block. A couple of times during the summer does wonders. The city does not do it, and most people either don’t think of it or don’t have time. Picking up gutter trash is also a small thing that makes a difference too.
How do you do gutter control where you don’t have curbs…
He lives!
http://www.advertiser-tribune.com/page/content.detail/id/515576.html
You squeegie the lake in your front yard that was caused by the city black topping the street 15 times in 50 years to a height of 2 feet above the original curb which has now disappeared.
Check out Melmore Street, the classic Tiffin elevated street. Or elsewhere where they put new curbs in so high the slope runs back off the street into Joe Citizen’s front yard.
What do you make of Ennis’s comments in today’s A-T? The five councilmen who opposed the mayor are really taking heat.
Soupy – Of course they are taking heat. Anytime anyone stands up to the good old boys network, the good old boys will fight like hell to preserve their self-interests. The way I see it, these young lions have a plan to restore Tiffin to its former glory. Ennis’s plan seems to be to spend our taxes on keeping as many people as possible on the city dole. What are Ennis’s amazing credentials in running a city that make him the expert to tell city council how they ought to be spending our money. I think he just sounds foolish. I say if city council wants to change this city, god bless em and I support em. Ennis and the status quo are dragging us down.
froggy- you make no sense! you wonder what a fire chiefs credentials are but sitick up for cline whose only credentials are a piss poor school record, cline was asked point blank what the one job he said to get rid of did, he had no answer , he is just one of Galipoes cronies, like your other “young lions” they just doing what their told by a few older councilmen
I find it interesting how creative the folks of Tiffin are in absorbing/disposing the dust and and dirt from rotting mortar joints. Our town falls apart, and we don’t even know it! Amazing how that happens, and the preservationists are unaware. ‘Tis a quiet-passing from among us.
In the Sweet bye and bye, we’ll be gone!
To AltonBenin:
That’s an interesting observation, but if you want to know where the “dust and and dirt” goes it’s probably clogging the sewers.
cigarman; It’s Ennes who does the bidding of the Mayor he serves at the pleasure of the Mayor and does what the Mayor says if he wants to keep his job. The counsel serves by election of the citizens and are not beholden to the Mayor or any other councilman.
How many of you have ever tried to get a letter published in the AT? It is interesting how some people can write a letter and get it in the paper the next day no matter how long it is and others have to wait for months if ever to get a letter in if the AT does not agree with you or your not one of the good old boys.
Houses and store fronts do not come with maintenance books or instructions on how to properly maintain them. Owners simply do not know.
While traveling to Toledo and back to Tiffin on the Fourth, each city we passed through had flags everywhere on city properly or street posts. Not Tiffin! I guess we really do not appreciate the country we live in. Maybe Tiffin should succeed from the Union. Start our own country. I just wonder which one of the Good Old Boys would take on the position of King.
I heard the young Mr. Cline thought the council position was a full time job. I guess he didn’t research what he was getting into.
It’s purty clear the citizens are on the short end. Do you believe the old boys or the five who had guts enough to say no to Czar Boroff and his men? The A-T is always in the corner of the establishment, so who controls the truth?
Ever count how many NASCAR, Browns, OSU flags flag 24-7 in this burg? I’ll bet they outnumber old glory. Also, what happened to the idea that when you own property, you learn how to take care of it. How about enforcing existing city regulations and getting on the slum lords who let things go to blazes?
What do some of these little villages mentioned above to that we can’t do here?
I realize all you government employees are fighting for your jobs. I understand. But people we are loosing population! So instead of sitting in a meetting trying to justify your roll in government. Get off your asses and support groups that are trying to make a difference because I don’t see that your plan (sitting around and waiting for the economy to turn) is going to work.
AltonBenin if you were mayor would you just hall the hole town to the landfill and call it progress? Maybe you should run for county commissioner.
I want to input more positive as well! Have you ever gone to the Cross Country Carnival? Check it out listen to the out of towners rave about our course our park, Check out our D league baseball field. Look at all the sponsers on the fence, check out oakley park during baseball season. What awonderful place to spend a afternoon. Little league football the same.Volunteerism everywhere. How it should be.Leave government to maintain the roads, buildings, and essential services because when it gets down to it people will always help people.
l
AFKSCL: The last time I was in one of those vibrant stores, I noted that they sell mortar mix and sand. There are unemployed tradesmen around this town who have the skills to tuck-point. We don’t need a Commissioner to do that.
If you want to dig a hole and fill it with the residue of “Tiffin,” I’m sure that could be done. There are plenty of idle power shovels sitting-around. However, seems some paint, mortar, caulk , replacement panes, vinyl and aluminum coil stock would spruce-up the Old Lady a bit. Does anyone care?
AFKSCL: Given your attitude, I presume you moved here from Cleveland a few years ago.
From the sizes of the average local posterior (bulbous and plentiful), I’d say that the suggestion to get off our asses is good advice. Pound for pound, the greatest county around!
Makes one wonder how soon Walmart will have those Fat Carts for us all!
I have on six different occasions. You have to sign your name to it, though.
I think anyone has the option to submit a column — which is what Ennis had — but again you have to use your name.
How many of you have ever tried to get a letter published in the AT? It is interesting how some people can write a letter and get it in the paper the next day no matter how long it is and others have to wait for months if ever to get a letter in if the AT does not agree with you or your not one of the good old boys.
JohnT and SenecaL – Shame on you for poking fun at the “circumferentially challenged.”
Overweight people are pushing for handicap rights which makes me wonder where the rest of us would park.
Before national health care goes in, people ought to be taught how to eat right and take care of themselves. Between smoking and fast food, the system will go broke taking care of those who have no clue. Or is that politically incorrect? Here in the county seat, you see plenty of evidence that personal responsibility is unknown to many people.
The choices we make reflect who we become. Who we become is a learning process for everyone. Can’t remember who to credit for these words but…they sound good to me. Have a great day!
The earlier observations about maintaining property and civic pride are echoed in the above. Our ancestors valued freedom but with that came a work ethic and sense of personal responsibility. Stewardship of the land and pride of ownership can return. Perhaps one positive in the current recession is that home and family may again be priorities as we rediscover the older virtues.
Dear Ted, I know the rules for submitting a letter to the AT and I follow them all including the number of words. I know I would never get mine accepted as a guest editor like some people do I know for a fact some letters are printed with false names.
Old timer – not to mention false information.
O.T. has a valid point. The courthouse debate is a glarring example of this.While Mr Nutter has a free pass from the A-T to express his point of view and his plan we have no clue what or when they are going to build if they tear it down or how much it will cost. You would think as a editer of a newspaper you would ask some of the (tuff) questions would be answered before he gives free reign on these long drawn out opinion colomns he writes.
How about the article by Risner today “reporting” on Strickland’s plan? They quote Daddy Wags liberally giving his spin on it and then publish names and addresses to contact to protest. Not objective journalism. Yes, the A-T is a biased paper/ The tragedy is that it is the only game in town, and the public laps it up.
Notice the Palin PAC adverts all over the website? That ought to tip off readers where the Nutting news empire is coming from.
Altonbenin, Did I miss something? What does Cleveland have to do with local building maintenance?
Ever experience the ‘values’ of folks up there? You are fortunate if you have not!
Seneca County Born and raised! Where in my statements do I reflect “Cleveland” No Values?.
If you want to keep your goverment job. Help the people who are trying to move the town forward.
.
I just can’t believe the number of bloggers who want to run off the youth movement in our city council! I am one of the old farts and I can’t comprehend why you wish this. Please look back over the last 20 years and look at the factories lost and the condition our city has deteriorated to. The old court house is held hostage by a handful of people and the river wall is falling apart due to the lack of attention over the years. We have an almost empty mall and a hospital that is struggling to survive. This isn’t all happening because of the poor economy. It took years of employing too many people to cover the basic services we need and neglecting our infrastructure. Give me the job of fire chief for one day and I will justify ten new employees. The point is you can justify any number of jobs you want and convince the government and the citizens that you just have to have them. Allowing our city streets to deteriorate so you can employ friends and family for life isn’t going to cut it.
Please explain to me why we need to send out a fire truck to every ambulance run? What is the cost per run for a truck? I know what the answer is, so before you give me a blanket ” it saves lives” give me cold hard facts as to exactly how many lives it has saved and how these lives were saved. This is just another example of how we got into this crisis by employing people for life regardless of the cost. Maybe we should purchase our own life flight copter and hire several pilots , docs, and nurses to man it. Saves lives you know.
kingjames – I’ve always wondered about that too. Is there some piece of life saving equipment on a firetruck (other than the obvious firehose and ladder) that can’t be placed on the ambulance? Is it for extra manpower to help the ambulance driver and paramedics? What is the answer?
kingjames our city streets are going to continue to deteriorate if they (Pete G. and friends) eliminate more jobs at Public Works. The only way they should be able to recommend a job be eliminated is to follow these people around for a couple of days maybe a week and see what work they actually do. Wait till winter and see how quick the streets get cleaned and the sidewalks cleared with fewer employees at P.W. I read the park board report in today’s A.T. and they are struggling and they (Pete G. and friends) want to eliminate another position there. I also noticed the “Special Projects” administrator’s position wasn’t mentioned to be eliminated. Once again, this title was created for him because the job he was hired to do was eliminated. He must be somebody’s “best friend”. One other quick thought, at the council meeting the Mayor mentioned a “large” crowd was at the dedication of the bridge at the park. According to today’s A.T. 30-40 people attended the ceremony, nice group but not a large crowd.
Well…looks like the State has finally reached a budget compromise at least.
sorry…forgot the link
http://www.governor.ohio.gov/News/PressReleases/July2009/News71009/tabid/1128/Default.aspx
or
http://preview.tinyurl.com/lcrf9t
123Gone:
Public works doesn’t pave streets they just fill pot holes. Paving comes out of our capital improvement fund that we spent on salaries. I guess our streets are nothing but potholes so we do need them.
So the commissioners are going to finish the year at with at least $370,000 less general fund revenue for 2009 than originally expected. Why don’t they just dip into the sewer fund to make up the difference?
How about Alvada Construction doing the work on the river wal? It’s good to see the contract going to a local company rather than sending our money out of the local area.
While it’s nice that Alvada got the project, I’m sure it’s only because they just happened to be the low bidder.
Alvada Construction is a class act and will do a great job on the wall. This will give the company the confidence and experience it needs to repair other parts of our crumbling wall. Do they pave streets?
They are a class act. Hopefully they can restore the CH.
Appears that their power shovel will ‘work wonders’ with the CH! Let’s hope they have enough tandem dump trucks to haul it away!
Hay Harvey sounds to me like you must be one of the dumb old boys.Me thinks you may well be one of the McDonalds gang.Try and keep up with the news the commissioner no longer have enough money to demolish the courthouse they just voted to spend it!
FYI Old Timer, they voted to spend part of it. They still have the money for demolition.
Our Commissioners are a modern-version of Nero! They do not have the money to repair, demolish, or build new. They have been fiddling while “Rome burns!” Of course, Nutter likes that because a fire — gives him job-security.
Wait ’till he hustles-off to Capitol City where he can put-out all the fires in Ohio!
Hey Harv,
Who is gonna pay to resurface the road that leads to the landfill
That the CH goes in?
Good point AFKASCL! Have you noticed the parade of dump trucks going to and from the hospital site, river wall project and the sewer project? These trucks are really hard on the streets, and they shake the buildings along these streets as they rumble their way over the pot-holed pavement.
There is no money in the budget this year for street repavement because the city has used all of the capital improvement money on salary’s.
Please explain how salaries are keeping the streets clean and the roads fixed?
All:
My point exactly! Now Carty Boroff wants to raid the sewer fund to keep his cronies working. Next we won’t have the money to fix sewer problems as they arise.
Did anyone see the results of the AT online survey regarding crossing guards? Over 60% favor volunteers and the next highest group favors cutting back city workers hours to cover the cost. Sounds like a mandate. Crossing guards is not a city function, they are a school function and therefore should be paid for by the school system.
Legally, school jurisdiction stops at the property line. Who should pay for the guard at Circular and Washington, for example? That guard serves St. Joes and Krout students. There was a time when a city cop was stationed at key intersections around schools. Preventative measures are part of public safety. Does the city want to incur legal fees when the first kid gets hit and parents file a suit? My tax dollars are better spent on crossing guards to protect Tiffin kids than on crony job security.
As you may recall, we voted a few years ago to lower the percentage of funds that must be allocated to capital improvements. I didn’t agree with it then, and I don’t agree with it now. I hear some noise of once again reducing the percentage. Next thing you know all tax dollars will go to salaries.
I think we have a chance to restore that 10% that we lost in capital improvements in the next election.
When we voted in 2003 on Ballot Issue 3, it eliminated the required 21.5%.
AFKASCL – In the next election will we be voting for a required 10% allocation to capital improvements?
Why is the city responsible for providing crossing guards? I don’t think they will incurr any liability by not having them. But if they had to choose between crossing guards and a special projects position, the crossing guards are better. This city survived before without the projects position. The only thing I think he does now is check property for junk, that duty could be given back to the police to handle. Can’t city council eliminate that position.
Speak,I think the city (Borof) has taken the position that they have alocated 10% on capital improvements since.
So if this is reversed then they would not be able to decide how much. They would have to spend the full 21%.
I guess I should not assume he is telling the truth on the 10%
The city council should get off their rapidly expanding behinds and fix our streets. What business or person would want to move to pothole city? They are not blind, they are not stupid, so what is their motivation for living in a crumbling crap hole?
Do street repairs come out of capital improvements? If so, then how does the salary rip off affect future road improvements, etc?
Yes street repairs and other improvements like the river wall replacement are part of capital improvement.
I almost for got the city clean up is today and don’t forget tonight’s meeting at the Ritz.
The decades long neglect of the CH is an example of letting infrastructure go to pot. The riverwall repairs and potholes should be a red flag to the city that we should leave the capitol improvement monies where they are. Let’s let the council know loud and clear that salaries should NOT come from these funds. In the long run, we’ll pay big time for it.
We should rename some of Tiffin’s streets to reflect the condition of the pavement and to give drivers a clue about what to expect. “Corduroy Road” or “Washboard Ave.” might be appropriate names.
“City Clean-Up?”
That’s an oxymornon, isn’t it?
Did anyone see the article on the front page of the Plain Dealer Sunday? A total renovation of the Terminal Tower which is going to turn 80 years old next year has been completed.
It was nice to see the newspaper put this in a positive light
Alton I hope you don’t stereotype the owners of this building to have “no values”.
Thanks AFKASCL: Great news about Wilmington in Clinton County too – first green enterprise zone community in the country …to assist building owners in achieving green building practices economically.
Oh, and Van Wert – more positive news about a Main Street community improving quality of life for all.
Good news counters the blues! Have a great weekend!
Monday the 20Th a very important day for Seneca county and Tiffin weather you are for restoration or not this will probably be the day the decision will be made.Make no mistake it will not be restore or rebuild it will be restore or demolish because the county has no money to rebuild.
There is little reason to believe that the Commissioners have money to demolish either! Did anyone in these parts every hear the word: ‘MANAGEMENT?”
‘Delay,’ ‘deny,’ ’stall’ … vote “NO!” Seems that pattern has long been at the very core of operations in this County. What Commissioners cordoned-off the CH in the first place? How many have followed in their stead?
LouiseS – It was Commissioners Sauber, Nutter and Schock (remember him) who “cordoned-off” the CH, and moved everyone next door in anticipation of doing something with the 1884 CH.
Never heard of Shock. Where is he now? Drawing salary with Wagner in Columbus?
I have a hunch that a gaggle of other Commissioners had a hand in ‘doing nothing’ for at least two decades.
LouiseSauer:
A majority of voters spoke their piece on paying more taxes to renovate the CH and decided NO! If a way is found to renovate without costing the county residents more taxes you would have a majority. I would vote for raising taxes IF it was to construct a new courthouse. Not everyone thinks the old CH is a diamond in the rough. Maybe the commissioners would still have enough money to tear it down if these lawsuits weren’t so expensive. I recent the fact that so many “CH savers” think the commissioners tricked us into voting against the tax. Most voters aren’t in the mood for any new taxes.
Elect suspect, compromised characters to positions of power and authority and the result is…. rubble and trash.
LouiseSauer:
You are sooo right. Mayor Carty Boroff is the local leader of rubble and trash and Crock Obama is leading us into bankruptcy and a divided nation! Talk about a couple of suspect characters!
King James is the right fake name for a real Tory. Let em eat cake. If you were really king of this county, you’d fix everything youbetcha. And you are calling Boroff “Carty”? And Sara would be yer queen. Talk about a crock.
Whoa! The current state of neglect did not just happen in a fortnight!
What grand updates did “Dr. No” Wagner, Distel, Dell, and folks of that caliber do to improve the quality of the CH?
You’re correct that the neglect goes back many administrations, but you asked who “cordoned off” the CH, and the answer is Nutter, Sauber and Schock.
I’m willing to have an open mind about tomorrow’s presentation by Mr. Conaway, which I expect will be a common sense approach to solving the problem.
KJ, Would you really vote for a new courthouse with the info you have been provided.(none). The fact we did not vote on a new building should really bother you shouldn’t it? Why would we only vote to restore and not replace unless we don’t want to know the answer.
Listen carefully and get a tape of today’s meeting if you are not planing to be there. Do not rely on the A-T to give you the true facts. Then try and make an informed decision on the courthouse. The truth is renovate or no courthouse the annex will be a disaster in 10 yr. It’s already falling apart.
Old Timer – Who says the annex is falling apart? Which annex are you talking about?
Chicken Little proclaimed “the sky is falling”, and later it was determined to be a mistake just like the bogus
“the annex is falling” statement. I knew I wasn’t voting for a new courthouse. I was voting for the old one to be torn down as phase one in beautifying our tired and boring downtown. The money spent on fighting these lawsuits could have been saved for a new courthouse. I have lived in this city for almost 56 years and I remember the good old days and the vibrant downtown we had. I remember shopping for clothes, shoes, furniture, and more after my father finally found a parking space. A new or refurbished CH will not bring back a vibrant downtown as some preach.
I read the AT everyday because it is refreshing to open the pages to find a somewhat conservative newspaper. I dropped my subscription to the Toledo Blade a few years ago because of their liberal leanings and outright hatred towards President Bush.
To each his own if all you read each day is the A-T then you must not read very much There is not enough to rape the garbage you spew Kingjames1 ! I have lived in Tiffin for 74 years and what does that have to do with anything every down town was like that back in your good old days.
Excuse me Kingjames1 I’m having a good day and you don’t deserve those remarks you are entitled to your opinions and I meant rap not rape
King James, your pedestrian line has been seen in these parts all too long. Get outa Dodge once in a while and fumingate the Lazy Boy. You and an original thought based on some research would be a major event on this blog. Gimme some evidence to support your narrow thinking.
On this 40th anniversary of the first moon landing, allow me to say, simply:
“Beam me up, Scotty! No sign of intelligent life down here!”
Seneca:
I have given many facts AND have asked for facts to questions I have and have received none, zip, nanna, zero……I appear to have narrow thinking because I am a conservative that doesn’t take off on wild tangents that are costly and suspect as best. Think the CH!
Dean Henry is on at the council meeting talking about the benefits of taxing us via the sewer fund. He has spent his career getting criminals off the hook and now he is trying to help shove the sewer tax down our throat. Sewer tax is the only name for it. Carty Boroff probably asked for his help.
Seneca:
Please take the time to go back over my replies. I have stated many facts and have received none in return. I will gladly list my stated facts if you can’t find them.
Seneca:
The last post was mine. I somehow was logged out.
Wow:
Now the council president is backing Dean Henry and wants to spend the sewer fund on crossing guards! Just raise my sewer fee to $1000/month and hire everyone that is laid off in the city. The good old boys of this city are using Chicago style tactics to get their way.
SEWER TAX — whatever you want to call it tax — I’m mighty glad to see some constructive things being accomplished in Tiffin! At least the Hyterical Trust folks are not hiring their attorney to “Save the Sewer” because it was installed in 1888!
If PROGRESS is ever going to be accomplished in Tiffin, let it begin at the bottom! This makes more sense than arguing how beautiful the CH is!
I saw Dean Henry at the Council Meeting also on TV. I agree 100% with him on the crossing guards. Governments should find a way to protect children. Why take risks with lives.
If the citizens of Tiffin are so concerned about flushing the safety of our children down the toilet, then let’s pay for the crossing guards out of the Mayor’s salary.
Why do they need a walking path around Oakley Park?
The council will find a way to fund the guards. Just remember that it was Boroff’s idea to take that out of the budget to begin with. Dean Henry, the Mayor, and Council President tried to bait the five into a debate about the sewer fund money. I’m proud they held back.
OK King. I laud your position on raiding the sewer fund. We disagree elsewhere, but on this issue we are in unison. Money Bags is right on too. Henry is right about rethinking the crossing guard situation; but it should not come out of the sewer fund. Oakley has a walking path already; it’s called grass.
The city will eventually get around to requiring residents surrounding Oakley park into installing sidewalks and that could serve as the walking path.
I don’t see how the city can raid the sewer fund. It’s already been stated the the EPA has required the city to speed up the sewer seperation project, and that money is needed to pay for that project.
Once the sewer fund dries up from being tapped, what happens next? Do citizens install Americans in the back yard or does the city raise taxes to replenish the fund? Capital improvement funds are established for specific uses and should remain distinct from operations. Why isn’t council looking carefully at administrative costs rather than eliminating the lower level pick and shovel jobs? How much could be saved by combining big salary executive positions. In Toledo, Carty combined the fire and police executives last year. On a short term basis, this could mean bigger savings than eliminating beat cops or firemen. Another combination could be to combine the city engineer and service director’s role. Doing things like this would send a message to citizens that cronyism in city hall does not drive the budget.
Until council summons the courage to openly discuss these issues, raiding the sewer fund will continue to emit an unpleasant aroma.
As a first step in a budget review, I challenge the A-T to print a complete listing of all city positions and their official duties. Since these are public records, there should be no threat to anyone. Complete transparency is essential and citizen input should be vigorous in an open, honest discussion of all expenditures before any action is taken on tapping the sewer fund.
That’s a good suggestion Asa. Add to that a listing of their salaries, as that is also a matter of public record, although I’ll bet some of them would be embarrased to have the general public see these numbers.
What a wonderful day in the History of Seneca County.
There is no doubt no matter what happens from here that the people of Seneca County should be proud of what the Tiffin Historic Trust has accomplished. While some may speak of lawsuits that have hampered the county,the reality is these lawsuits have paved the way for Franklin Conaway to present a plan that can save the county MILLIONS while preserving history at the same time.
I can say these people have given 110% and put up with catcalling demolishionists that have given nothing more then that to there own cause. They could not even tell you what it would cost to destroy the courthouse and put a green space there let alone a new courthouse with all the things the renovation will provide
I say lets send a message to Conawy and his Downtown Development group that we want our downtown back and were starting with the courthouse .
Tiffin Historic Trust.AFKASCL is one guy that takes his hat off to you for doing what you can for Tiffin and Seneca County.
Lets not only presserve history in Seneca County .
Lets make history!
AFKASCL – I couldn’t agree more with your comments! The Courthouse Group did as promised. They showed them the money, showed them a feasible and creative plan which will bring the 1884 courthouse into the 21st century, and they showed the commissioners in great detail what work needs to be done. Best of all it won’t cost a penny more than new construction and in fact is will cost less.
…and Nero fiddled as it burned
Asa,
What “lower level pick and shovel jobs” have been eliminated? One person from Public Works was eliminated and another moved to the Parks and Recreation.
Who would be Nero in your analogy? Also, crossing guards are lower level and have been eliminated. I suggest that the city use the unemployment figure in the county and use that percentage as an across the board reduction in executive salaries. That should restore the crossing guards and prevent more raiding of the sewer fund. Politically, it would be a bold act and might get the mayor reelected next election should he choose to run.
I couldn’t agree more with AFKASCL & speak easy some of us have been there from the beginning and know what has gone into getting us where we are now and the historic trust has not only led the way but paid the price with both money and radical by some who never lifted a finger or bothered to find out the facts I just hope and pray that our leaders don’t let all this hard work and opportunity slip away.
Asa:
You are right to request the AT publish all city jobs. I would also like to see a side by side listing of the number of city employees and population of Tiffin for the last 20 years.
What about the elimination of the city administrator? Could the mayor pick up their duties now that he has a secretary of his own? What would have to happen to eliminate this position? Isn’t our administrator in line to double dip the pension fund? I believe his salary would cover the crossing guard expense. I not saying this needs to be done. I’m asking if this is an option. Seems like everyone feels their job is essential.
Didn’t I once hear that the Commissioners have an Administrator/Coordinator/Manager type person on board too — or, was I daydreaming? Or, is that Conway?
Harvey, you weren’t daydreaming. The commissioners do have an office administrator.
OT, I don,t believe our commissioners are true demolishionists like some of the bloggers here. I just think they are trying to be fiscally responsable in the publics eye. I also don’t think they want to put a park where are courthouse should be. that would be another broken promise that I don’t think they would overcome.
Harv, I don’t think that Conaway has received one dime from the commissioners thus far.
Is anyone else tired of city administration having nothing to say about this issue. It’s like this is being played out in another town or something.You would think that Boriof could at least address this in his opinion colomn he writes in the A-T.City infustructure will be affected.
Agree or disagree? I would like to know that our city officail care about what happens within our city limits.
I agree. Instead of trying to gut the Design Review Ordinance, the city should be defending it as an effective instrument for protecting the historic downtown which the Tiffin Tomorrow initiative is trying to develop. Without it, the Conaway group would never have happened, and we would never have seen the financial alternatives and funding possibilities now on the table for the CH. If the CH is restored, it will mean more downtown development (and funding) in projects already being discussed. The mayor’s awkward silence on the CH and strange efforts to undermine the Design Review Board will not be forgotten. He seems more interested in consolidating power in City Hall than in leading the city forward. If the CH restoration and Tiffin Tomorrow are successful, people will remember that the mayor was AWOL on both.
To AFKASCL – The city is ignoring the courthouse issue because they are afraid of the issue. It was easier for the Mayor to tell council not to get involved, because it’s the county’s responsibility not the city’s. Well, I guess the Mayor found out otherwise, when the city’s own design review ordinance came into play. The courthouse, no matter who it belongs to, is setting right in the heart of downtown Tiffin, which makes it a city issue. It’s similar to the enormous Marathon building in the heart of Findlay. It doesn’t belong to the city, but it definitely has an impact on the central business district.
I predict that the commissioners in an effort to be fiscally responsible will give Mr. Conaway’s group the go ahead to apply for funding and see where that leads. The commissioners would certainly not be under any obligation to at least explore those possibilities.
By the way, what happened to Scout?
Speak, If they give the go ahead to look for funding. Would that be contingant on the commissioners signing the resolution to pay them?
Scout must be on a hunting trip with Dale Williams.
AFKASCL – Regarding the resolution, I don’t know the answer to that?
Regarding Scout, I was afraid the dog catcher got her, or maybe her dog license expired.
Will that CONWAY statue be of bronze or granite?
I predict that nothing will continue to happen on the courthouse. Yes, maybe the commissioners will authorize the group to start seeking financing but the problem is that the county already has started tapping into the construction/demoliton fund and will have do so so even more throughout the year leaving it with no money to demolish the building. Unless we have some sort of revenue increase, we already have the sales tax increase, I don’t see them being able to borrow through the bond process either to make the payments.
Don’t be surprised to see them nix the courthouse deal to cash out the groups deposit money.
Speck easy and the rest of you. 1. Conaways group has already secured the funds guaranteed! 2.It does not work that way ones thy give the OK they are committed to the project all the funds are contingent on restoring the courthouse.
Old Timer, I beg to differ, even if the conaway group has $2 million in hand, which it does not, the county still has to borrow about $5 million, though they believe that the USDA will lend the amount. I wonder if bonds would be cheaper than a loan through the USDA.
I don’t know what all the fuss is about. They’ll be able to build a new courthouse by just paying for it out of the sewer fund.
Good one Frog! By the way, I don’t understand what the hubbub is with dragging down Boroff for not showing up at the commissioners meeting to fight for the courthouse. “It’s not a city building.” Come to think of it, the commissioners called that bluff a long time ago when they offered to sell the thing to the city. Boroff has his own issues, like finding money for services and not telling other govenment bodies how to spend their money.
Can anyone explain if the new plan included the amount of what it will cost to reprogram the annex to meet the needs of juvenile and probate court and whatever gets moved in there. I thought the original plans called for the commissioners office to move in there.
Sen. They will have moving costs no matter how you look at it.
Lost my identity on that last post.
Senator B – You must have missed the part of the presentation where Mr. Seney and Ms. Clark explained funding the project?
Senator B – You use phases like “even if”, “though they believe”, and “I wonder if.” Why not let Conaway’s group proceed to the next step and find out for sure.
Senator B you must have missed the part where Nutter said they had been hoping to finance at a cost of $500,000 a year through bonds compared to$200 something to $300,000 through USDA and a representative from USDA was on hand to explain it and talk about available funds they could access each year has grant money all the moneys are pretty much guaranteed but the commissioners must first commit to the project before you can apply for funding. What do you mean by money in hand go back and review that part of the presentation.
Sen., Borof does not have to agree with me on saving the courthouse. But he does have to care what happens in his town to get my approval. By not even showing up for the presentation he is sending a message that he does not even want to be informed on what is going on in this town.I mean think about it, he could be in the same kind of meeting a year from now with the same development group about redevelopment of the downtown.
Even my cousin Del showed up.
Franklin Madoff = Bernie Conaway?
Beware of someone who offers you an awesome deal that has no negative aspects.
Anonymous – I understand there will be another presentation of the courthouse redevelopment plan on Wednesday the 29th in the evening. I hope you, and the other naysayers, will attend and get all the facts.
Anonymous – Don’t see how you make that comparison. Do you know anything about the team he
has working on this project? Only fools judge others before the facts.
Turning down this amazing plan that Conaway and company has put together would be pure LUNACY on the part of the commissioners.
P.S.: I attended the presentation at the commissioners meeting, and plan to attend the public presentation when it’s given. I predict that, when the public sees and hears the details of this, a lot of minds will be changed forever.
Anonymous sounds a lot my my cousin Del. If he was Lazarus being brought back from the dead by Christ himself, he would turn down the deal because it was from an outsider. Better to remain dead than gamble on deal that looks too good to be true.
Why is the A-T runing a poll on the courthouse now????
Because its in the news again?
What was the question asked?
The poll is running again because it takes less guts than writing an editorial that might enlighten the community. This week’s brilliant results indicated that 61% of fair goers liked eating themselves into blimps more than anything at the fair.
The A-T loves to create the impression that most of us are simple slobs, so why expect anything else from their moronic attempt to sample public opinion. The face shots they run look like police mug shots.
Gimme a flannel cake and a chicken fried steak an don ask me to think.
I haven’t seen anything about a public presentation on July 29… so how is the public supposed to have its eyes opened when it isn’t publicized. Is the plan to present the program for the same audience of Tiffin Historic Trust members and friends.
It seems like a good plan that hasn’t been sold beyond that core audience.
With further cuts at the county level, I see a lot of resistance to the county taking up that debt. Maybe the tea party people will get wind of this this and have a tea party.
Senator, The presentation will be at the Ritz at 6pm and was publicized at Rotary last week.
Soups,
I doubt anything can be written that would enlighten you any further, by the AT or anyone else.
So its a private presentation for rotary members? Why the bad publicity?
Bluto – Nothing private about it. Check out the front page of today’s A-T. Public presentation of the courthouse plan to be at the Ritz on Wednesday at 6 p.m. Hope to see you there, how will I recognize you? Will you be bringing Mandy Pepperidge?
I doubt that anything can be said or presented that would change the minds of haters like senator bull or smiling ted of the McDonald’s gang but hopefully there will be some open mind people out there who are willing to listen to facts before making up there minds, and by the way the presentation at the commisiners office was open to the public to bad you choose not to attend you probably wont be there Wen. night ether.
Old Timer, you know what they say about making assumptions.
I hope you weren’t referring to me as Senator Bull because frankly i had been convinced by the presentation that the renovation is the better option, but again, you only reinforce my belief that the courthouse supporter are so bitter that they spout venom at those whose help they need. For example, that McDonald’s gang should have been approached. They aren’t all evil and some actually listen to reason, believe it or not. By just alienating everyone who isn’t you or your cabal of believers, you will continue to face futility.
The courthouse renovation plan is a solid plan to reinvent the original purpose of this landmark building….that of providing court space with functional, efficient, and secure areas. It provides a sense of history and reflects the respect that a judicial system deserves. It is a space for every citizen who enters to recognize and appreciate the important work conducted within. The peaceful and orderly resolution of conflicts is a work in progress….for all of us. It is time to come together and get the job done!
I agree with you, Ohio USA.
I once wanted the CH bulldozed. I have changed my mind because it appears that renovation will be a less expensive option for the taxpayers. What’s more, the renovated building would be a more impressive structure, and I believe it will last longer. In point of fact, I would wager good money that the renovated courthouse will last a lot longer than the “annex” that was built on the cheap. The annex will be lucky to last another 30 years. Why would we want to double our trouble there?
Will there be cost overruns on renovation. Probably.
Would there be cost overruns on a new building. Probably.
What is the best option at this point? Renovation.
I’m not a part of the McDonald’s crew, nor am I Old Timer’s son. If the renovation was going to cost more than replacement, I’d be for replacement. But, it won’t. And, I have no shame in admitting that I changed my mind once I have seen all the numbers and options.
Joe – your post is a result of your personal civic engagement …. being open to learning – there can never be shame in that! Yes, we may always differ on why we chose to renovate; for example, cost issues, sustainability, responsibility….but….hey I guess you could call renovation the compromise then, all things considered. Hurray!
I have to say once again how hard these preservationists have worked. One of there biggest hurdles has been to convince the public that help for restoration is all over the place where destroying and replacing with new, help just does not exist. The A-t should of reported on this objectively but instead would quote Mr. Nutter calling out the preservationists as liars when it came to grants and their existence. The sad part is federal tax grants that could be used for renovation (2million) are still not being utilized in this plan. and it still kicks the crap out of destroying and building new.
Once a resolution/commitment is made by the commissioners to renovate, all possible funding solutions will be forthcoming.
Old Timer – Let’s avoid name calling at this point and concentrate on only stating facts.
Old Timer – Sorry I hit the submit comment too soon. I wanted to add that at least Senator B attended the presentation (even if he had to leave early) to learn for himself first hand about the Conaway proposal. He had in the past been for replacing the courthouse.
I apologise to senator Blutarsky I was trying to respond to your remarks about historic trust I don’t see any difference between your constant derogatory remarks about people who have worked hard to get us where we are without whom the courthouse would already be down and people who spend all day setting around drinking Chip coffee and criticizing everyone.I’m so glade to hear you changed your mind and I applaud your open mind.
Speak:
Sen. Blutarsky has, in the past, spoken in favor of renovating the Jr. High building and using that for the Courthouse. I don’t believe he was ever for replacing the 1884 courthouse with another cheap annex-style building.
By the way, does anyone know what is going on with the old courthouse in Marion County? We were on parallel tracks with them some time ago, but I’ve heard nothing recently from the folks down south.
Huh?
What does Ted have to do with any of this? I’ve never gone on record one way or the other on the CH.
I doubt that anything can be said or presented that would change the minds of haters like senator bull or smiling ted of the McDonald’s gang but hopefully there will be some open mind people out there who are willing to listen to facts before making up there minds, and by the way the presentation at the commisiners office was open to the public to bad you choose not to attend you probably wont be there Wen. night ether.
Also, I am not part of the fabled McDonald’s klatsch. I work during the day and have better things to do.
Until I get home and read the blog, that is
The “McDonald’s klatsch,” after consuming all that caffeine, must lay awake all night worrying about the courthouse.
I think it’s time we stop the bickering and join forces to get it done. WE all win in the end!!!!
We don’t need to raise taxes, as this can be done affordably and will also address the space needs issue that the commissioners have wanted to meet.
This is another step forward for the Tiffin Tomorrow
group too.
We observed today that “Freeman’s Folly” at the corner of Perry and Washington is getting a face job. Later, we looked-back over Beautiful Downtown Tiffin and observed a great amount of black smoke! Did they give-up and torch the old building?
Nope, I think the Tiffin fire department was practicing on another former home on Miami Street.
By the way, as to whether I was at the presentation, I have to admit, I watched it online.
Common sense, Has common sense. Could not have said it better my self. I hate to say , but historical significance and pride should put this project over the top!!
MargeN – What are you talking about? I also observed that United Insurance at the corner of Perry and Washington was being painted, but why would you refer to it as “Freeman’s Folly?”
I agree I will stop all my sniping. I don,t like being negative and must admit having going back and reading some of my latest blogs I have not been too nice. Have you checked the A-T poll lately the courthouse renovating is losing.
Sorry Old Timer, just don’t see what good bashing each other does. It just breeds more anger and isn’t
productive. What is productive is the work that the
development group has done, and that should stand
on its own merit.
Everyone needs to go tonight and with an open mind.
Look at what’s presented and think about it. Then make your decision based on the current facts, not the
rumors or hostility that were circulated in the past.
Tiffin needs to come together for the sake of all of Tiffin.
Common Sense….”Tiffin needs to come together for the sake of all of Tiffin”. Let’s expand that comment a bit more to include the ripple afffect that reaches much farther than the corporation limits to be sure! Thank you!
This morning’s Blade ran an informative story on last night’s meeting at the Ritz. It’s too bad more people didn’t attend. The A-T did not cover the event. More such meetings are planned for the community. Let’s hope more citizens take a closer look at this unique proposal to enhance our community.
Is it true that Dale Williams was instrumental in the monumental successes of “The Three Einsteins” and their unending quest to resolve all Court House issues.
By the way, how much public money did they wasre trying to demolish the old lady?
Who is Dale Williams?
Dale Williams frequently writes letters to the editor, but is believed by many bloggers to be a pen name for someone else.
What do you mean by “pen name?” Is he in prison, writing from the Pen?
Today’s A-T story on the commisiners meeting was a change for them they almost got it right.The commisiners asked the A-T reporeter several times to print the fact that the two votes on the courthouse was not a vote to raze the courthouse but votes on taxs for the courthouse but the A-T would not print that.
Eloise, “pen name” is a made-up name used by a writer to remain anonymous like “Poor Richard” the name Ben Franklin used. Or Mark Twain (Sam Clemens) or Asa Seewald (????).
A “pen name” in a penitentiary might have other implications we won’t pursue here.
Actually, if anyone payed attention to the insert that was in the Absolutely-Terrible on 3 July (on local military veterans), you’d have noticed an article about…..Dale Williams.
I think we determined there were at least two Dale Williams, one in Tiffin and one in Bettsville. And there was also a woman from Bettsville named Dale Williams who is deceased.
Let’s discuss the opinion article written by Kevin Risner in today’s A-T; the call for apologies regarding the courthouse controversy.
I will start with this statement: Everyone who has been in any way involved as an active participant in the journey to a solution will have varied measures of regret.
Risner’s article was a little short on objectivity. The uncivil treatment of citizens in public meetings was not touched upon. Heated rhetoric and mud slinging certainly was shared by both sides in the debate. Healing will come with a resolution of the issue. Risner, as a citizen, has a right to an opinion and the freedom to state it in the A-T. However, as a reporter he could have asked more questions on the “journey” to educate everyone. His column reveals his true feelings and not a little bias. Let the healing begin.
Conflict resolution is a process….another journey….a journey that should lead to greater trust and collaboration and citizen engagement in a healthy community …of learners.
Anybody heard from Frau Scout639 lately? Vie miss her!
Watching Council Meeting. Since when are tax payer dollars for use to make sure that people have a job. I thought my taxes were supposed to pay for services, not make sure the Mayor, and the City Administrator’s buddies keep a job. There are too many people on the government payroll. Start cutting the jobs and use my money properly!
of course Risner’s article was short of objectivity, it was an opinion piece, hence he stated his opinion. I’m am always amazed at how readers can’t distinguish between news stories and opinion pieces like letters to the editor or guest columns in a paper.
Regardless, I think his column was fair and very on the mark. It needed to be said, and now that its been said we should be cognizant of the bitter feelings that have been sown.
Bluto – The same goes for this blog.
The stuff said in the heat of battle should not be brought back into the discussion. Lets move on.Who involved didn’t get their feelings hurt?
If the county commissioners want there good name back they will stay the course and be fiscaly responsable. They could try to get the governers 2 million dollar commitment back. Is there still any chance of gaining stimulas funds (We all new that we were not getting 11 million like Sauber requested)
There was 2 million dollars available if ownership was temporarily transferred. Lets go after it!
The bottom line for me is that when you report on something like grant mabee opinion is not the way to go. Mabee you should investigate and report so you don’t look foolish and irresponsable as did the A-T.
Another question What happens to the land that the Hedges family donated to the county for a courthouse if they choose to destroy and not rebuild?
I have been, and still am against saving the downtown eyesore. I decided to hold off expressing my opinion and allow all of you time to pat each other on the back for awhile. Please remember that the money is not yet secured or a sure thing. Many obstacles remain to be navigated around. Many citizens of this county will never vote additional taxes on themselves to pay for renovation of an old building that will constantly require more maintenance than a new building. Not everyone shares your collective opinion that this will lead to the revitalization of our downtown. Please don’t tell me that additional taxes won’t be needed because I know how these things work out. First there will be great cost overruns in the middle of the project followed by an emergency tax to complete the project.
I see Mr. Rose wrote in the AT about a previous scam that a few preservationalists pullled (not unlike this one) many years ago. Is this the route we are taking?
And finally, no I didn’t go to the meeting at the Ritz. I am still in favor of demolition and the building of a new courthouse and that won’t change. I would vote for an increase in my taxes for a new courthouse. OK, there you go, you can start writing your scathing replies to someone who dares to disagree with you all.
Look, people. The commissioners have a responsibility to be careful with public money. It is no longer questionable which courthouse option is most fiscally prudent. If y’all want the old courthouse torn down, then YOU should pay the extra couple million it takes to tear down and build a new one. I suspect Normie Rose will be happy to put the first dollar in the collection basket.
Col. Klink:
I knew it wouldn’t take long for the mud flinging to start. You took the bait like a famished carp. If you would have read my OPINION without hatred towards an opposing view you would have noticed that I stated I was willing to have my taxes raised to build a new courthouse. Norman Rose would be right behind me.
KJ, This group did the renovation project on the Ohio Supreme Court building (95 million dollar project) and came in 1 million dollars under budget. and was completed on time. You want to build new, which we know will be more expensive so there will be a tax right off the bat, but there will be cost overruns not to mention that you will only receive a building 1/2 the size so a few years down the road you will half to choose weather you want to add on or not grow as a community. I would say that you will have to be taxed twice to get your building done.
KJ, I am sure you could count on your brother Delmar as well.Lets call you the Seneca County Downtown Demolitionists Group.This would put a positive spin on our hole community.
The plan in 1962 was for a private development group headed by Hugh Fiske and George Peck to raze the courthouse and to build a multi-story parking garage on the public square. They believed this was the solution to revitalizing the downtown. In exchange for the public ground they would erect a new combination jail and courthouse on the site of the old jail. The project was to be financed by the sale of stock to the merchants, and downtown land owners with no cost to the county.
AFKASCL:
One project under budget. Is this a trend? Every project has different challenges emerge and to think that it is a given that this project would come in under budget is a dream. You, nor anyone else can look into a crystal ball and determine that this project will come in under, over, or on budget. My guess is over budget and your guess is under budget. And I do believe that a new courthouse would end up over budget like most projects. Most of you are fuming that everyone doesn’t share your opinions. The demolition group, if we had one, would reflect a large population group in this county. A few misguided people can push what they desire onto the entire county. It. can happen in DC also. The newest polls show that 86% of american citizens like the health coverage they have and would like to see some minor changes to keep the cost down. The other 14% may get their way with national healthcare forced upon us! I thought I lived in a democracy?
housecalls:
I appreciate the facts you have stated. Facts are not a staple on this site.
King – I have to question Mr. Rose’s statement that the project was voted on by the general public. The way I understand it, there was a legal question as to whether the county could sell the public square since it had been donated by the Hedges family. Because this question could not be resolved the project died.
I agree with your view on healthcare but would they want to demolissh the state capital building and White house instead of renovating?
No matter what you say. I believe that a (new) courthouse tax would be defeated badly.
King – I think it’s unfortunate that you were unable to attend the 1 hour presentation at the Ritz. I will say the three hour presentation to the commissioners was the meeting that everyone should have attended. Mr. McCabe went into great depth on calculating cost overruns and contingencies. His approach was to examine every square inch of the building and have contractors submits bids for the various phases of the work. Then a total cost was determined from that information. He explained the areas where cost overruns are expected and how contingencies have already been included in the $7,995,000 cost figure.
Where most overruns occur is when bids are based unit pricing. For example stone work will cost $X per square foot to repair, but they have no idea up front how many square feet need to be repaired until the work starts, then the project goes way over budget. What Mr. McCabe has done is to have the contractors examine the building before hand so that a more exact budget could be established.
In other words the CH group is saying they know the courthouse can be restored for $7,995.000, rather than saying we estimate it can be restored for that amount.
I want to add that you can pick up a copy of the DVD recording of that commissioners’ meeting. I found it very helpful in understanding exactly what the courthouse group presented to the commissioners. What you read in the newspapers or on this blog is only an interpretation of what was said. Get a DVD of the meeting and find out the true facts.
If the commissioners had the detailed work done by the development group a few years ago, much of the rancor and misinformation that have cluttered the CH issue might have been avoided. Now that a decision is at hand, it would be refreshing to look at facts for a change, indignant letters to the A-T notwithstanding.
To AFKASCL – Did you mean to say “hole” community?
Sorry speak, I will try to make sure my thoughts are “whole” before typing.
There is know Destroy Ohio,Destroy America, or any Trust dedicated to the destruction of Tiffin for that matter.KJ lets get this town moving again!! We need your help.
AFKA – Sorry but I couldn’t resist picking on you. The way I see the courthouse situation is this: Of the group that says tear it down about 5 percent would say tear it down no matter what; the remainder are saying NO to a tax increase. On the other hand, of the group that voted to save the building about 5 percent would say save it no matter what; the remainder would simply support any public improvement (and yes they would also support a new courthouse.)
You should take that a step further and say the voters either said NO to being taxed for capital improvements, or they said YES to being taxed for capital improvements. As we know the majority said NO, and they will continue to say NO to more taxes.
Look, “King”, I didn’t take any bait. I stated my OPINION (I capitalized it since you seem to think it is required to use capital letters for that word), the same as you stated your OPINION (notice how I capitalized it again?). It is my OPINION that Norman Rose is out to lunch. It is also my OPINION that we should go with the least expensive viable option. It is no longer OPINION that renovation is the least expensive viable option, it is FACT (notice how I capitalized that word too, King?) By the way, if demolition and replacement had been the least expensive viable option, my OPINION would be different.
Additionally, “King,” what about my post spewed hatred? Just because I disagree with your OPINION does not mean that I hate you, but your venomous pen certainly could justify me moving in that direction. Grow up!
By the way, who died and made you King?
To Colonel: Can’t you see that after 47 years there are people who are still bitter because their plan to build a parking garage on the site of the courthouse fell flat on its face? Considering that the life span of a parking garage is similar to that of a bridge – about 50 years – had the parking garage been built, we would be arguing today about how to replace that structure. Meanwhile, “The Rock of Gibraltar” – our 1884 courthouse – has survived that 50 years, and is ready to serve another 100.
speak, I think 33% voted for the tax increase last time. I think of the remaining no votes 33% voted to tear down, and 33% voted no new taxes. Oh, and 1% flipped a coin. This is just my opinion.
AFKASCL, Which side of a coin equals preservation – heads or tails? I see that a penny and a nickel both have historical landmarks on the obverse side.
Nice observation speak. One can only hope that our county commissioners embrace our proud history. That would put it over the top. No coin flip needed.
Amen, money! Truer words were never spoken!
Perpetual analysis?
Thoroughness?
Decisionmaking?
Procrastination?
Sure is confusing!
Hang in there!
Have a good weekend!
I do not know how the county commissioners will vote but I do know that the most thorough investigation and study of the feasibility of renovating the Historic Courthouse that could possibly be done was done. By some of the most experts in all of the professions that it would take to do the job right and at no coast to the tax payers and win or loose they believe that strongly in the project. I think we should all have a little faith and trust in them. People with open minds will most often find the truth but those with closed minds will never see anything but there own opinion.
The minutes of the July 20th meeting are up and running on the internet:
http://www.seneca-county.com/Commissioners/Minutes.htm
These gentlemen, Conaway and company, have put a tremendous amount of time and effort into this summary report. They worked with the clerk and the judges, too.
WOW…did you hear as of Aug 6….$96 thousand dollars + worth of delinquent property taxes have been collected from $653 200 overdue just from letters sent out from the Prosecutor’s office! I read it in the Fremont News Messenger and the Blade!
My only problem is how long it took these elected officials to finally evaluate the costs correctly. All they ever presented was greatly inflated figures to renovate which naturally were more costly. Six years later and all that time wasted.
Let,s talk Health Care ? I’m personally for Universal coverage I think there has been way to much hip and no facts presented against it. The only thing we hear is the supposed Waite for care witch is a out right lie ask any Canadian and they will tell you the only wait is for elective or nonemeageny care. while in this country you can wait for months to see a specialist.If it is so bad why don’t we see more European Doctors rushing to practise in this country instead of just Thrid world Doctors? Lets start the debate!
PS This is just the opinion of the sender and may not be the general opinion of this blog
Old Timer, I beg to differ with you about Canadian health care. I have a very good friend from Canada who became a citizen of this country, as well as his parents and siblings, and our health care system was one of the benefits they most appreciated. He also happens to be my daughter’s God-father. He told many tales of poor health care treatment.
Government run anything doesn’t work, I watched a “youtube” clip today where Obama is answering a health insurance question. The concern was that his healthcare policy would put private insurance out of business. His response was “no it wouldn’t, take FedEx and UPS, they are very successful companies and the Post Office is in horrible shape”. Exactly, he
doesn’t get what he just said, that the government can’t successfully run a business!!!!!
Common: Have you never heard of any US citizen who got hosed by the American health care system? I have. Neither system is an all-or-nothing system. As long as we have Enron-style insurance companies running things and telling doctors what they have to do, we will not have the best system we can in this country. If things are so great here, why are we last in the world, for example, in the rates of infant mortality among all industrialized nations of the world?
It stuns me that people are so willing to condemn the government while, at the same time, giving insurance companies a free pass.
“Government run anything doesn’t work”? What an insult to our very capable armed forces, FBI, and other first responders. By the same token, a lot of businessmen can’t run a business or run it into the ground from greed and incompetence. The automobile business, banking, insurance are only a few obvious examples.
My best friend is a specialist in a neighboring state. He tells me horror stories about how the corporation that runs his practice forces him to meet quotas and regulate how much time he can spend with his patients in appointments. The patient is not a client to them, only product to be processed and billed to keep the bottom line fat.
Here in Tiffin, the cost of malpractice insurance has driven out several fine doctors. Ask any woman how easy it is to see a GYN around here since Estrada shut down. Why do local patients (despite our spiffy new hospital) routinely get shipped out to Toledo?
The health care issue is complicated. Let’s separate hysteria and political agitation from the discussion.
Hey, just followed Old Timers instruction to get the debate going. It’s been really boring on here lately.
Asa – You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned malpractice insurance. The cost of liability insurance of any kind is more than many businesses can afford. Some say blame it on the insurance companies, but I think a good long look at the legal system and frivolous lawsuits might be a better place to start.
Thank you ” common Sense” There is no answer that fits all. That’s why we need this debate now. I can tell you horror stories about Health care in this country too. A friend who had a massive hart attack after seeing her Doctor several times and being in the emergency department three times in one week with severe hart pain and each time she was told there was nothing wrong with her hart till the last time when she was life flighted to StV’es and lost 80% of her hart. A member of my own family who had gall bladder removal and then suffered for six months with terrible pain was diagnosed with severe gerd and every stomach aliment known to man finally went in to hepatitis, pancreatic and almost died before it was discovered that the surgeon who performed the gull bladder removal failed to perform a simple procedure to in insure a gull stone did not slip into her common bile duct after many specialist visits ,emergency room visits and trips to St V’es to be finally diagnosed My point everyone has horror stories to tell they are not the whole storey that’s why we need this debate now.
P.S. when did the government become some unknown entity that we all blame all the problems on ? I always thought we were the government. Who was it who first said I’ve met the enemy and it is us.
Money bags; You are partially right law suites of all kinds have gotten out of hand and must be part of any change in this country a lot of law suites awarded are made by juries.Greed is contagious.
Insurance companies and drug companies are the main reasons for high cost of health care in this country If Obama wants to help us that is the first thing he should do is regulate them.
Another big reason for health costs is the advertising that drug companies pump into products like Viagra, Cialis, Celebrex, and Vioxx. They count on big profits from drumming up demand with national campaigns. The drug lobby is massive and tied into both parties big-time. The companies claim that obscene profits are necessary to pay for more research, but it’s greed pure and simple. If the drug and insurance companies are not regulated, does anyone really believe that this will change?
OT – Jurys can award these large settlements because the law allows it. Insurance provides the pot from which these huge settlements are paid. We need to change the laws.
Asa – You are correct. It is disgusting all of the advertising on TV about drugs and diseases. Every disease now has a “catchy” abreviation so that the common person can remember to ask their doctor for the cure.
Another part of the health care puzzle is preventative health and diet. Those people who eat sanely and exercise should not be subsidizing those who are selfishly indulge, don’t take care of themselves but expect gold plated care when their poor choices catch up with them. And I am not talking about poor people here who are victimized by a lack of dietary variety in inner cities abandoned by supermarkets. Early onset diabetes, obesity and smoking related health issues become everyone’s problem when it comes to funding treatment.
These are all good comments but no matter how you sum it up we all pay for a bad system we pay for those who have no insurance we pay for the lack of preventive health care we pay for drug companies monopoly on big name drugs that they promote to Doctors to prescribe.That is why we are the most costly health care in the World and we don’t even rank in the top 50 for good health care.There is so much waste in the system that could help pay for reform. The debate is on lets not let a few who are trying to stop honest debate by scare mongering.
And you have to wonder weather a doctor will prescribe you the best choice or what O.T. is talking about… The best kickback.
Jury verdicts on med mal cases are lower than they were 15 years ago, but malpractice premiums have doubled. Insurance companies manipulate EVERYTHING, from tort reform to outrageous, unwarranted premiums. If you really want to know what is screwed up with health care in this country, start with the insurance companies. It’s like Dick Cheney or Ken Lay are running every single one of them.
If we don’t rank in the Top 50….then why does the King of Saudi Arabia come to the Cleveland Clinic for treatment? And the King of Dubai?…..and United Arab Emarates?
It isn’t like they can’t afford to go to the best in the world.
Seems to me that we do have the best health care….the best that money can buy.
Mayo Clinic, UMass, Cleveland Clinic, and Johns Hopkins just to name a few….with a single payor system, or socialized medicine….they probably wouldn’t be.
Although I could be wrong….because even in Soviet Russia…which is the best example of socialized anything…..the rich still got the best treatment and the poor did not.
Let’s ask the bean counters of the Seneca County Fair Board merge with the County Commissioners and SOLVE all of our problems! [They's real gutt smart folks!]
Anonymous, That’s the point the very rich of any country come here so they can be pampered at our expense. I don’t believe that many come here anymore senses Dubai now has one of the most luxurious hospitals in the world now our wealthiest and famous go there. when they did come here they would get an entire floor to them self . If you want to talk health care visit this site for facts and meths, http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitrycheck
Scout and fellow bloggers – I see that you can now view the courthouse presentation by the SCCDG on the commissioners’ website.
Well when I was at the clinic 2 weeks ago…someone from Dubai was there…the entourage that I saw in the lobby said so.
I spoke to a security officer and he told me that “Royalty from Dubai” had been coming for months for treatment of his daughter.
He didn’t say who, or any diagnosis.
But keep on reading your conspiracy theories, and stay right there in the dark.
Dear Anonymous, Please send me a copy of the news story or some verification personally I think your full of bolder dash.I read everything even right wing boulder dash you only believe what you want to believe and if that doesn’t work just make it up. You right wingers don’t want to provide health care for foreigners unless there wealthy phonies.This my be just a joke!!!!
I think healthcare reform will benefit the lower middle class more than any people. These people avoid going to doctors etc. because their insurance either is not good enough or they do not have any coverage. The more well to do people can afford insurance and the real poor people get welfare that can cover the medical expenses. Many people and organizations are afraid or a National Health care. When you do not know all the facts sometimes you only believe what some group of people tell you.
How can we in the general populus know all the facts when the government officials working on the plan probably don’t understand all of the details?
Col. Klink:
Sorry it took so long to reply. I was busy growing up.
To answer your question, I chose myself king.
Did you know that Col. Klink in the TV series was a bungling fool and always wrong. So why did you pick this character? I’m not sure where this hatred you speak of comes from as I read back through my replies. Someone also wondered where everyone has gone in this blog. Most people who are against renovating the courthouse and against national heathcare on this blog have probably given up on posting their opinions. They are probably tired of the venomous replies. Me, well I don’t give up so easily.
KJ .I do respect your opinion to destroy the landmark, i just don’t see the plan to wreck the courthouse and then tax us for a new one half the size as being a good one.Please don’t group all the people for destroying the courthouse with all the people that don’t want health care because no one has convinced me that national health care is right for this country They are not linked in anyway
Front page Toledo Blade ; To the delight of longtime proponents of saving Seneca County’s 1884 courthouse, county commissioners voted 3-0 Tuesday morning in support of restoring the downtown landmark. The A-T nothing good reporting on local news.
I’m sorry, I was wrong. The A-T has had it up on their Web site all day also.
YEAH! Nutter finally fell off the fence and Sauber followed him. Wise political move boys.
Wow it only took them six years to make a decision after they fought with the historical people forever.
Watch ‘em chisel, cheat, short-cut in pulling-off this “Miracle on Washington & Market.” Will they attempt to “grandfather” safety measures/precautions out of reconstruction?
Welcome Louie. You are the first Baby Ruth in the punchbowl.
Louie seems to know all of the tricks of the trade. Let’s appoint him owner’s representative for the County.
What is the target-date for all this street/sewer work in town? Any chance that it will be completed by Easter, 2010?
Steps forward….steps back…..a giant stride – energy builds! A chance to run, jump, and achieve!
Did anyone see the mayor to jump and cheer yet? Just wondering.
Still no comment yet from the mayor or city council they should be elated no matter the courthouse because this group is now working to redevelop Tiffin. Go figure
You would think the mayor would at least get on board with Nutter and try to make Strickland make good on his commitment.
By the way how dumb is Saubers 11 million dollars in stimulas money request for renovation of the courthouse.
What about when the Commissioners were demanding the history people pay the legal expenses for the county. Well the shoe is on the other foot now. Shouldn’t the Commissioners repay the county for those expenses out of their pockets.
The Gov. did not offer a blank-check to this county for CH restoration. There was a contingency, and our voters did not meet the challenge. NOW — the Republicans are trying to make a fuss about this. Having one’s “cake, and trying to eat it too” is often difficult to do.
Why is it that the A-T spin on everything is sour? Their grudging editorial and the front page hype about Wagner getting the money from Strickland is more of the same kind of reporting they have done all along. Somehow, they seem to want to foul things up.
Louise, Nutter is a Democrat. I did note that all the rest of them want to get some credit for all this. Even though they all did nothing. All of a sudden Wagner wants to act like he cares about Seneca County. Sorry Jeff. Too Late!!
Sgt. Good point. Out of all people involved in this The A-T stands to look the most foolish. After all it was their employee who first accused the commissioners office of violating sunshine laws,But more importantly anyone who can read now knows that they have been misinformed about the condition of the building, funding, and costs. This is why they would rather write a opinion column about “hurt feelings” instead of printing The Redevelopment Groups plan.Boo-Hoo!!
AFKASCL – I agree with you but it’s all water under the bridge. In retrospect the A-T could have done some investigative reporting, asked real experts, and made their own determination about the true condition of the courthouse. Personally I think the A-T should have doubted both the preservationists and demolishionists; that would have made for some interesting journalism. By the way, Dave Frisch, then publisher of the A-T, served on the 2001 Courthouse Committee that recommended restoration of the building.
Speak,It is water over the dam but giving Wagner a place for his political grandstanding is more of the same old good old boys reporting.
It’s also not to late to print the development groups plan for restoration.
AFKASCL – Water over the dam or under the bridge is about the same difference. Sounds like you want to send Wagner up stream without a paddle. Good idea! Sorry I missed your comment about publishing the SCCDG plan. That’s also a good idea!
I really don’t care who gets credit or blame for the courthouse now. It was a long hard fought battle with strong opinions on both sides but the fact is that the most fiscal responsible thing to do is to restore the historic courthouse. What we need to do now is all join together and try helping the redevelopment group help us to make Tiffin a better and stronger place to live. It would be nice to see the A-T take a leadership role in this.
Amen O.T.!! How about some good investigative reporting on some more specifics on what could happen to some of the other buildings that the development group has there sights on. This would help people see what all good could come out of this.
Speak, I guess as long as it isn’t water under the dam or over the bridge we should be O.K.
AFKASCL – That’s a good one !!!!
No one person deserves the credit for saving the courthouse. Everyone involved including the SCCDG, Commissioners, Historic Trust, etc, etc are all links in the chain; but I think we can all agree that Conaway was the clasp that completed the chain.
What the A-T report that good could come out of anything?